WTF Rankings

[Matthies]

Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Good point, but I disagree.

USN&WR isn't simply listing the "most selective law schools" (and even in that case, merely factoring LSAT/GPA is insufficient).  It is listing the 'best' schools.  Your academic experience will be enhanced when you have a library with plenty of resources and space, when your professors are of high quality, when the school spends money on enhancing your experience, when the school provides the ability to summer in a good firm that will give interesting work (employment %), and when other students are very smart.  All of these factors are relevant in assessing the quality of the legal education.


That said, I don't think USN&WR is perfect.  I think it could add some measurements, use different proportions to come up with rank, and measure things differently.

I’d go for gladiator style combat between each schools “hero” the self appointed gunner champion in a fight to the death using flails and tridents. The longer you schools gladiator lasts, the higher the ranking, until out of the two reaming battlers, one must choose between letting the defeated live and get the accolades those with a heart in legal academe, or instead go for his own glory and slit his or hers throat and become EIC of the Law Review. Payperview of course, with Nancy Grace doing the announcing, and adoring fans from each school watching with anticipation to see if their classmate remains alive long engough to get the school a respectable rank, but die himself so you don’t have to complete with him for grades or jobs next semester.  It appeals to all law students on so many different levels.

[YouShouldFeelPrivileged]

Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Good point, but I disagree.

USN&WR isn't simply listing the "most selective law schools" (and even in that case, merely factoring LSAT/GPA is insufficient).  It is listing the 'best' schools.  Your academic experience will be enhanced when you have a library with plenty of resources and space, when your professors are of high quality, when the school spends money on enhancing your experience, when the school provides the ability to summer in a good firm that will give interesting work (employment %), and when other students are very smart.  All of these factors are relevant in assessing the quality of the legal education.


That said, I don't think USN&WR is perfect.  I think it could add some measurements, use different proportions to come up with rank, and measure things differently.

I’d go for gladiator style combat between each schools “hero” the self appointed gunner champion in a fight to the death using flails and tridents. The longer you schools gladiator lasts, the higher the ranking, until out of the two reaming battlers, one must choose between letting the defeated live and get the accolades those with a heart in legal academe, or instead go for his own glory and slit his or hers throat and become EIC of the Law Review. Payperview of course, with Nancy Grace doing the announcing, and adoring fans from each school watching with anticipation to see if their classmate remains alive long engough to get the school a respectable rank, but die himself so you don’t have to complete with him for grades or jobs next semester.  It appeals to all law students on so many different levels.

Haha! But wait...

[non parata est]

Aren't we ignoring the real question here?

When do the new Cooley rankings come out?

[Tetris]

Aren't we ignoring the real question here?

When do the new Cooley rankings come out?

No kidding.  Nothing will make us Sixigan Michigan students feel better than seeing us ranked above Yale.

[LawDog3]

Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Do you mean this? Almost every human being I have ever heard speak about the rankings, even those who staunchly support the LSAT as an indicator, say that too much emphasis/weight is given to the LSAT in rankings. One negative outcome is that schools wind up catering to the USNWR rankings when selecting candidates, instead of giving holistic reviews of applicant files and selecting students they would otherwise love to admit.

[m1ss_uNdeRst00d]

[/quote]

I’d go for gladiator style combat between each schools “hero” the self appointed gunner champion in a fight to the death using flails and tridents. The longer you schools gladiator lasts, the higher the ranking, until out of the two reaming battlers, one must choose between letting the defeated live and get the accolades those with a heart in legal academe, or instead go for his own glory and slit his or hers throat and become EIC of the Law Review. Payperview of course, with Nancy Grace doing the announcing, and adoring fans from each school watching with anticipation to see if their classmate remains alive long engough to get the school a respectable rank, but die himself so you don’t have to complete with him for grades or jobs next semester.  It appeals to all law students on so many different levels.
[/quote]

I'm in. Let's go.

[TTom]

Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Good point, but I disagree.

USN&WR isn't simply listing the "most selective law schools" (and even in that case, merely factoring LSAT/GPA is insufficient).  It is listing the 'best' schools.  Your academic experience will be enhanced when you have a library with plenty of resources and space, when your professors are of high quality, when the school spends money on enhancing your experience, when the school provides the ability to summer in a good firm that will give interesting work (employment %), and when other students are very smart.  All of these factors are relevant in assessing the quality of the legal education.


That said, I don't think USN&WR is perfect.  I think it could add some measurements, use different proportions to come up with rank, and measure things differently.

I'm in total agreement.

[Ninja1]

Actually I think the problem is that most of the ranking is not based on real, meaningful factors like LSAT. A ranking based purely on a LSAT/GPA index would probably be more accurate, but it wouldn't be worthy of a lucrative magazine edition.

Good point, but I disagree.

USN&WR isn't simply listing the "most selective law schools" (and even in that case, merely factoring LSAT/GPA is insufficient).  It is listing the 'best' schools.  Your academic experience will be enhanced when you have a library with plenty of resources and space, when your professors are of high quality, when the school spends money on enhancing your experience, when the school provides the ability to summer in a good firm that will give interesting work (employment %), and when other students are very smart.  All of these factors are relevant in assessing the quality of the legal education.


That said, I don't think USN&WR is perfect.  I think it could add some measurements, use different proportions to come up with rank, and measure things differently.

I’d go for gladiator style combat between each schools “hero” the self appointed gunner champion in a fight to the death using flails and tridents. The longer you schools gladiator lasts, the higher the ranking, until out of the two reaming battlers, one must choose between letting the defeated live and get the accolades those with a heart in legal academe, or instead go for his own glory and slit his or hers throat and become EIC of the Law Review. Payperview of course, with Nancy Grace doing the announcing, and adoring fans from each school watching with anticipation to see if their classmate remains alive long engough to get the school a respectable rank, but die himself so you don’t have to complete with him for grades or jobs next semester.  It appeals to all law students on so many different levels.

Best system I've ever heard on several levels.

[YouShouldFeelPrivileged]

I think that San Diego's leap was pretty impressive.  I wonder if their part time program factored in there. 

All the more reason that this list appears suspect; USD would have expected a similar drop given the incorporation of the PT program details

It seems semi-bizarre to me that a program (GW, with Fordham being similarly situated) with the 13th or 14th highest median admission #ers in the nation (167, 3.75) and the 18th highest NLJ 250 placement by % and 6th by total # is being bumped to 28 by Indiana, Iowa ... William and Mary?!?! It makes sense if (and only if) USNWR factored in PT #ers but apparently this is not the case; USD jumps by how many spots? Something is wrong here.

So will we find out in two days that TLS pwned us all?    lol

hah .. I admit that it seems unlikely. I think that the more likely scenario is that USNWR has officially jumped the shark

It's official 
lol

[T. Durden]

I think that San Diego's leap was pretty impressive.  I wonder if their part time program factored in there. 

All the more reason that this list appears suspect; USD would have expected a similar drop given the incorporation of the PT program details

It seems semi-bizarre to me that a program (GW, with Fordham being similarly situated) with the 13th or 14th highest median admission #ers in the nation (167, 3.75) and the 18th highest NLJ 250 placement by % and 6th by total # is being bumped to 28 by Indiana, Iowa ... William and Mary?!?! It makes sense if (and only if) USNWR factored in PT #ers but apparently this is not the case; USD jumps by how many spots? Something is wrong here.

So will we find out in two days that TLS pwned us all?    lol

hah .. I admit that it seems unlikely. I think that the more likely scenario is that USNWR has officially jumped the shark

It's official 
lol

haha apparently so

i understand what USNWR is trying to do but this is scorched earth. i'll put it like this: a school like GW with t15-17 median admit stats and t18 NLJ250 placement will *have* to react in some form or fashion as the new ranking will adversely impact its ability to both place its current students and recruit students of equal or superior caliber. so what recourse does GW have? should it stop gaming its #ers? it never did game its numbers to begin with. the FT class of '11 is the same size that the GW FT division has historically been; ~510 or students. all 510 students in this FT division contribute to the 167 / 3.75 medians. the same theory applies to the FT employment stats. so why the drop? well, the answer is simple: the night school.

if there is any recourse to be taken, it now lies with the status of the PT division. that's it. USNWR has overreacted in a major way and now the status of virtually every PT dept in the country will have to be reconsidered. it's unfortunate that a 3rd rate pub like us news has the power to shape the system in such a way.

http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/law/LawBasics.aspx?iid=1035863

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61206