Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Fed. Public Defender  (Read 5554 times)

UnbiasedObserver

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2014
    • View Profile
Re: Fed. Public Defender
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 10:03:27 AM »
I don't know you, so I'm not going to say that you do do or do not intentionally or consciously engage in misogynistic behavior - perhaps you really are one of those rare individuals who manages to evaluate and criticize men and women by the same standards and in the same way. If so, I applaud you, because I haven't managed it yet. That said, my comments that follow are not meant as a particular criticism of you. I don't know you, and that would probably be unfair. But I do hope that you - and everyone else reading this - will stop and think about this.

Ok, I'm listening!

Women, particularly strong-willed, opinionated, stubborn, and/or vocal women, are frequently, perhaps even systemically, accused of "ranting and raving," being hostile, etc., and are informed that, as a result of that, they will lead a sad and lonely life, that no man could possibly love them, etc. I cannot count the number of times I've been told that, and I would be willing to wager quite a lot that this is true for most of the women who post here, most women who are in law school, and, in general, a large segment of the female population. While I'm sure that some men hear this as well, I'd also be willing to wager that it doesn't happen with anything near the same frequency. I've heard, time and again, from friends, acquaintances, bloggers, teachers, etc., the same story. 

That's sad. 

These kinds of comments are used to shame women into conforming to a more socially acceptable role, as well as to discredit their (our) arguments without actually addressing them on their merits. Now, I'm not saying that that is what you were intentionally doing here. However, whatever your intention, and even if you would say the exact same thing to a male poster who said what dash said (which I sincerely doubt, but cannot prove), every time someone makes comments of this sort, it contributes to the system - a system that I personally have experienced as telling women to sit down, shut up, and smile prettily already for Christ's sake. And, speaking again from my personal experience, it gets really f-ing old.

Well, I can assure you that I don't try to pidgeonhole women into socially acceptable roles.  I'm *definitely* not one of those men who believe that this is the only route for women.  Women are amazing; unfortunately, they still have a very steep hill to climb.  As you state below, if I'm giving off that impression, then I obviously won't make that comment again, and I apologize!

So what's my point? I would propose that, if you or anyone else wants to be able to claim to not be misogynistic, you ought to consciously refrain from making these kinds of statements to women under any circumstances - even if you sincerely believe that the gender of the speaker has nothing to do with your assessment. This is a consistent issue that women face, and it shames and it silences, and it has got to stop. We can all do better than this.

Fair point, and see above.  My sincerest apologies, to you and especially Dash. 

dashrashi

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3601
    • View Profile
    • LSN
Re: Fed. Public Defender
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2009, 12:51:32 PM »
Calling someone stupid after they've made stupid arguments is vastly and completely (in-kind) different from disparaging someone based on their academics and/or LSAT score. (That's even if you want to characterize the former as "intellectual arrogance" or "my way or the highway," which is already a suspect decision.) To accuse me of the latter, because you're erroneously conflating the two, borders on character assassination.

Seriously. Whatever you were bringing to the table on that front, it wasn't coming from me.
This sig kills fascists.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=dashrashi

Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

UnbiasedObserver

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2014
    • View Profile
Re: Fed. Public Defender
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2009, 01:25:03 PM »
Calling someone stupid after they've made stupid arguments is vastly and completely (in-kind) different from disparaging someone based on their academics and/or LSAT score. (That's even if you want to characterize the former as "intellectual arrogance" or "my way or the highway," which is already a suspect decision.) To accuse me of the latter, because you're erroneously conflating the two, borders on character assassination.

Seriously. Whatever you were bringing to the table on that front, it wasn't coming from me.

Well, I'm glad that you don't feel that way. 

I really think you're a great poster here.  I just think you go overboard sometimes.