Law School Discussion

taft law school

Re: taft law school
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2015, 10:05:21 AM »
You are missing the point, a DL law school grad who has passed the bar realistically has no choice but to go solo if they want to actually practice because no one will hire them.  If you have a law license you can practice law as a solo or any other lawful way.  And if someone has managed to basically teach themselves law and pass the bar, they should be able to figure out how to defend misdemeanors or handle a disability claim.  After a year, no reason why they can't do jury trials if they have had some contested hearings and watched a few jury trials. It is not as complicated as it sounds.  A lot of attorneys just plain get tired and never want to try anything new because it's "too complex."  I say law is law and if you have a license you can argue to the USSC if they will let you in the door.  I've filed some Writs of Certiorari with SCOTUS but am still waiting to get that call.
That Taft degree has served me well and will continue to do so.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #121 on: August 15, 2015, 07:32:31 PM »
You are missing the point, a DL law school grad who has passed the bar realistically has no choice but to go solo if they want to actually practice because no one will hire them.  If you have a law license you can practice law as a solo or any other lawful way.  And if someone has managed to basically teach themselves law and pass the bar, they should be able to figure out how to defend misdemeanors or handle a disability claim.  After a year, no reason why they can't do jury trials if they have had some contested hearings and watched a few jury trials. It is not as complicated as it sounds.  A lot of attorneys just plain get tired and never want to try anything new because it's "too complex."  I say law is law and if you have a license you can argue to the USSC if they will let you in the door.  I've filed some Writs of Certiorari with SCOTUS but am still waiting to get that call.
That Taft degree has served me well and will continue to do so.
I get the "no other choice" part. I agree their other options suck. But saying that all is left to eat is your own poop doesn't make doing it a good idea.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2015, 08:30:57 PM »
"But saying that all is left to eat is your own poop doesn't make doing it a good idea."

I don't understand the attitude, what is wrong with being a solo practitioner?  About 40-50% of lawyers in private practice are solo, get a grip.

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/marketresearch/PublicDocuments/lawyer_demographics_2013.authcheckdam.pdf



Re: taft law school
« Reply #123 on: August 15, 2015, 09:22:41 PM »
"But saying that all is left to eat is your own poop doesn't make doing it a good idea."

I don't understand the attitude, what is wrong with being a solo practitioner?  About 40-50% of lawyers in private practice are solo, get a grip.

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/marketresearch/PublicDocuments/lawyer_demographics_2013.authcheckdam.pdf
"get a grip"...........on reality.

Starting solo without experience is an idiots task. The stats you gave mean jack. How many started that way? How many attended online schools with little to no real life connections of any kind?

I can't imagine this being more simple.

loki13

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Re: taft law school
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2015, 07:09:58 AM »
Woah.... somehow, this thread devolved into the battle of the coprophages. :)

Anyway, I'll throw in my two cents. Solo practice is always an option after law school. But it it's a lot harder than just needing some gumption and practice manuals. I cannot speak for every jurisdiction, but it's an issue with my (current) state bar and a topic of conversation with local bar ass'n that there just aren't a replenishment of solo practitioners coming out of law school. I would say that ths issue is a little different than, say, 1992.

Next, it will be even harder with the DL option than with in-person, because you're not getting any connections, chances for internships, summer positions, etc., that often lets you learn to practice. What you learn for the bar exam is not what you need to practice.

Then there's the actual practice. As LP wrote, there are practice guides. These can be invaluable. But early on, there are a lot of things you just will not know. Does your court have local rules? What about this particular judge? What are the deadlines that can change... and what can't change? And so on. There's a lot of play in the system, but try to make connections and get some other attorneys who have already climbed that mountain to offer some advice.

Finally, the practicalities of being a solo practitioner involve business .... something many people are unprepared for. The tax issues, setting up client trust accounts, scheduling (and.or hiring an assistant)... all of these small things. Make sure you see if there are resources to help if you chose this route, or you could end up with a client complaint to the Bar early on in your career.

Working as a solo practioner (so I've heard- I'm more of the firm type) can be a wonderfully rewarding experience, allowing you to chart your own destiny. But it will be very difficult to go straight out of law school. If it was easy, then instead of hearing of all of those unemployed attorneys duing the last recession, we would have heard of a lot of solo practitioners.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2015, 07:58:55 AM »
I would say DL learners are well suited to be solos since they have essentially taught themselves the law and therefore already have the basic qualities a solo needs which is self reliance and focus.  ABA learners are spoon fed by the law schools by comparison. You know what correspondence law consists of - reading Gilbert's outlines or whatever the online version is these days.  Concord if it is like its parent KU, might even have live lectures online.  Additionally, most successful DL students already have careers or are ex military or law enforcement and have networks and have been around the courts.  So I agree most 24 year olds wouldn't be capable of  going solo due to lack of life experience but that is not the DL demographic IMO.

loki13

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Re: taft law school
« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2015, 08:54:36 AM »
LP-

Well, if I concede your priors, that the DL learners in question have an aptitude for the law since they successfully learned it, have self-reliance, have focus, and, moreover, already have a great deal of experience with the court system from their prior careers... then, yes, the transition might not be as difficult.

There's a lot of assumptions built in there.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2015, 09:37:44 AM »
Having the right attitude is great, but like 1% of the battle. Showing up and going "I'll figure it out, I'm self taught" is a BAD idea.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #128 on: August 21, 2015, 05:37:02 PM »
I do think LP makesa  point the few and I mean few lawyers that graduate from a DL and pass the bar have displayed reliance and likely have networks established.  The majority of DL attorneys I have met were non-traditional types with backgroudns similar to those described by LP. However, as I am sure even LP would admit very few people graduate from DL school it is very hard to be motivated in an online environment and for those that do get thruogh it the bar passage rates are minimal, because as LP claims they are not spoon-fed the law as ABA schools do.

The ABA model does a better of educating its students I don't think anyone is debating that. In a DL school you are paying less and getting less and the only way to succeed in that environment would be self-motivation, risk, etc which are the qualities a solo has.

I would never recommend a 23 year old right out of college choose anything other than an ABA school. However, the earlier hypo of the 37 year old living in Boise etc ABA is not actually an option.

I don't think anyone is arguing Taft is a "great" school. However, it can work for the right person, but it is a huge risk and odds are it will not work out as is the case for most DL grads, but it certainly can and does happen.

Re: taft law school
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2015, 09:17:20 AM »
I do think LP makesa  point the few and I mean few lawyers that graduate from a DL and pass the bar have displayed reliance and likely have networks established.  The majority of DL attorneys I have met were non-traditional types with backgroudns similar to those described by LP. However, as I am sure even LP would admit very few people graduate from DL school it is very hard to be motivated in an online environment and for those that do get thruogh it the bar passage rates are minimal, because as LP claims they are not spoon-fed the law as ABA schools do.

The ABA model does a better of educating its students I don't think anyone is debating that. In a DL school you are paying less and getting less and the only way to succeed in that environment would be self-motivation, risk, etc which are the qualities a solo has.

I would never recommend a 23 year old right out of college choose anything other than an ABA school. However, the earlier hypo of the 37 year old living in Boise etc ABA is not actually an option.

I don't think anyone is arguing Taft is a "great" school. However, it can work for the right person, but it is a huge risk and odds are it will not work out as is the case for most DL grads, but it certainly can and does happen.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but the sad part is that their target audience doesn't appear to be anyone "straight out of college" since they don't even require a full degree to enroll, and the credits can be from other quasi-accredited online schools like them (often they offer an undergrad associates of something or other-such as paralegal- for those lacking the credits as well) I can't recall if Taft does this, but I do recall seeing a few out there that do.