Cal Western or Thomas J…

[Cloud'nBolt]

 Out of all these “sever problems” 

Apparently the attrition rate of 40% has finally been resolved.  They are not cutting 40% of  students out of the student body, they are cutting 40% off of student bodies.

Hahaha. I cant believe you have reduced yourself to spell checking my posts, but your statement was funny non-the less. Ill add that to your list of contributions. 2 Gold Stars for you!

[cconnoll]

If you attend Cal Western, know you want to practice in San Diego, and can graduate top %10-20, are jobs easily attainable in that market?

[Cloud'nBolt]

If you attend Cal Western, know you want to practice in San Diego, and can graduate top %10-20, are jobs easily attainable in that market?

Depends on what type of law, who is competing for the position, and how good your networking was in law school...

[cconnoll]

I admit ignorance. I have no idea what field of law I want to pursue. I am hoping to have that issue resolved agfter 1L or 2L, in that scenario, I guess Im wondering what the job prospects look like in San Diego for a person in that position? does anyone know? or know where I could find any relevant information on the topic?

[Matthies]

I admit ignorance. I have no idea what field of law I want to pursue. I am hoping to have that issue resolved agfter 1L or 2L, in that scenario, I guess Im wondering what the job prospects look like in San Diego for a person in that position? does anyone know? or know where I could find any relevant information on the topic?

Its kind of old now http://www.amazon.com/Official-Guide-Legal-Specialties/dp/0159003911/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240070815&sr=8-1 but might give you some idea of the different legal specialties out there. But usually, for most students, what the firm has open in an area is what you will end up scpcelizing in. To get a job in a specific specialty area right out of law school will take networking with lawyers in that specialty, which you can usually do while in law school by joining a specialty section of your local bar association going to their lunches/CLEs and making contacts.

As to your other question, I don’t know, too bad there are not any students from you school on here to answer that. But and its worth repeating till I’m blue in the face going to these schools means your going to have to make things happen for yourself, from day one. Next to grades networking should be your next highest priority from DAY ONE. Who you know beats where you go, or what your rank is if: A) you do it right, and B) you know the right people. What you can do right now is research the student memeberships for all the local bars, check for any Inns of Court and ask the school about any alumni who have offeredd to chat with studnets. Also get a book on networking for dummies that will teach you how to talk to anyone aout anything and follow up with them

[cconnoll]

Mathies has helped me more times than I can count.

[Cloud'nBolt]

Mathies has helped me more times than I can count.

I hear that a majority of law students don’t initially know what they want to practice. Im not even entirely certain myself, but I have a pretty good idea. Yea, Matthies has helped me out as well. We appreciate it Matthies. I think I speak for more than just myself when I say: Im glad you are on Law School Discussion.

[Almost There]

I had never seen this site before, but I signed up just to throw in my two cents. It seems like you had a genuine question that got lost in some kind of feud, I would like to return to that topic.

I am a 3L at Tommy J and am less than a month from graduating. I also have a lot of friends who go to CalWestern. If you pose the question of which is better to students at either school, they will pledge fidelity to their own respective school. As I am about to graduate and can reflect on the choices I have made, I hope I can offer some insight.

I graduated from UCSC with a double major and good grades. However, multiple choice has always been my downfall, so the LSAT did not go well for me. I got in to TJ and was waitlisted at UCLA and USF. In the end I did not get in to either and decided to take a leap of faith with TJ. After speaking with the administration, I dug their philosophy and felt it would be a good fit. I thought about waiting and trying to get into one of my wait list schools, but decided to go for it instead because I wanted to go to law school more than anything else in the world. Do I regret it? Not for one second!

I think you have to look at your reasons for going to law school. If you are looking to pull down some serious funds and go in to corporate law or something of that nature, neither of these schools are for you. Most likely, you should wait another year, really study for the LSAT, and try again. If, however, you are going to law school because you love the law and you want to go into public interest/public service, then these schools are your new home.

Law school, as someone pointed out earlier, will always be what the student makes of it. Of course tiers and prestige are important when choosing a law school, but I have found that they are secondary to many other things. I have thoroughly enjoyed my experience at TJ. I loved my professors, the contacts I made, the student organizations I belonged to, and the study abroad trips I went on. CalWestern is also a great school and all my friends loved their experiences as well. Do not listen to what some will tell you about how detrimental these schools will be to your career; they are simply trying to make you feel less-than. Will it be as easy for you as it will be for Boalt grads? Of course not. You will have to work harder, give more, and strive for excellence always, but you will be the better attorney for it.

The bias: Thomas Jefferson is on the rise whereas CalWestern and USD have leveled. We will be moving into our new campus soon which is sure to help with the tiers. Our bar pass rate is improving each and every time, primarily due to the genius of Dennis Sacuzzo and Nancy Johnson's Bar Secrets program. The faculty and staff are there for your success and strive to do all that they can for you because your success in turn will be theirs. Also, I have heard from every employer I have had that they prefer to hire TJ students because they are better workers. They have more to prove and are hungrier. Most (emphasis on "not all") other students ride on the coat tails of their school's name and feel that everything should be handed to them. TJ students know they must compete with these students so they prepare more. They network, practice their skills, take every class possible to help them in their respective interests, and seize their goals. I think we have a passion that is seldom seen elsewhere and employers know and respect it.

The hate: No one outside of San Diego has ever heard of TJ. It is still a T4 school at this point. The entire school is focused on the move and some other things are left by the wayside. Some top level employers will throw your resume away without looking at you after just reading the name of the school. Also, our campus right now is crap - straight up.

The ultimate decision is yours and no one else can sway you one way or another. It ultimately falls to what your end goal is. If you want prestige, keep looking. If you want specialized education, faculty that is approachable and helpful, and a school that is just about to burst into greatness come to TJ.

Sorry for the over-lengthy post. Good luck to you!

[Ninja1]

Moral: San Diego still stomps the other two, and any of the other balla schools in S. Cali still dominate SD.

[StevePirates]

Well, since a TJ 3L has thrown in their two cents, I suppose I will too.

I'm a 3L at CWSL.  The single biggest point you should draw from "Almost There"'s post is that most of the students at both TJ and CWSL are fairly loyal and happy with their school.  I know that I like my school a lot, and think it's better than TJ.  I also know a few kids at TJ who feel exactly opposite. 

I think the biggest practical distinction between the two is bar passage rate vs. curve-out.
Cal Western has higher forced attrition, and a better bar passage rate.
TJ lets the bottom group stay, and has a lower bar passage rate.
It's not hard to see that it's the same group of people who wind up non-licensed.  CW makes the cut after one year, TJ will let you get your JD which is worth... eh.. you can call yourself Dr. So n' So if you want.
Test relatively well?  Then great odds are it doesn't matter much to you which school you go to.

TJ is moving into a new building, so that oughta be a good boost for the school.  I don't know what they'll do to fill the 8 stories, but I'm sure they have a plan.  Have CW and USD levelled?  Well, USD's ranking seems to be kinda sinking, and Cal Western hasn't really done anything earth shattering lately, but the numbers at CW trend up.  Will moving into a new building make TJ a new school?  Only time will tell.  I'd be excited about it if I were a TJ kid.

California Western has a good career services office, which helped me choose CW over TJ (and USD actually).  Cal Western has a crapload of programs with UCSD which don't really add any value if you're going to law school to be a lawyer, but if you're an academic dilettante then it's pretty cool.  Admin at CW is very engaged in helping people succeed.  The Dean knows me by face and name, and that's not because I'm cool, it's because they care.  They are however, very inflexible about the curve and attendance, which is a drag.

There are always rumors at both schools about "big ground breaking things that will change things forevar", but yeah. 

Odds are whichever school you go to, if you work hard, and realize VERY early the importance of networking, you'll be fine.  Of course, I'm biased, so I think that you should pick CW.

I'm a 3L, outside of the top 10% (inside the top 15%), wrote onto Law Review, got a Fed. District Judge externship.  I am not worried about job prospects on the lower end of the employment spectrum.  I am hopeful that I can move up the food chain and land a judicial clerkship, but if not, public service here I come.

Employers in SD tend to hire from the school they went to.  I (and four other CW kids) lost out on a job to a TJ kid, the hiring attorney was a TJ grad.  I beat out several USD and TJ students for another job, the hiring attorney was a CWSL grad. 

In my opinion, all of the schools in SD are regional.  They all produce students who are incredibly insecure about their prospects, so it makes for pretty heated propagandistic rivalries.  But as time goes by, and people graduate, the San Diego market has room for good attorneys regardless of their school.  So, go to CW, but if you don't I'm sure you'll be just fine too.

Just don't go to USD, I heard they have cooties.