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Author Topic: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge  (Read 4786 times)

Susan B. Anthony

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2009, 09:24:47 PM »
lol


mugatu

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Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

Miss P

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2009, 09:36:11 PM »
LawDog, I agree with you about one thing: it probably doesn't matter whether you are offering legal advice on this website, regardless of the ethical considerations, since you participate anonymously.  That said, you really have no idea what you're talking about.  Contract principles, and the related question of whether there's an "agreement that could be established or breached," have nothing to do with whether you have offered legal advice or engaged in the unauthorized practice of law.  Different states have their own tests, but I'm not aware of any that depend on contract principles.  Except in narrow circumstances (e.g., you are an upperclass law student practicing under the supervision of a licensed attorney according to your state's student practice order), non-lawyers may not practice law, which includes interpreting the law as it may apply to a given situation.  Including the OP's, regardless of how trivial you seem to think it is.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

LawDog3

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2009, 11:18:12 PM »
LawDog, I agree with you about one thing: it probably doesn't matter whether you are offering legal advice on this website, regardless of the ethical considerations, since you participate anonymously.  That said, you really have no idea what you're talking about.  Contract principles, and the related question of whether there's an "agreement that could be established or breached," have nothing to do with whether you have offered legal advice or engaged in the unauthorized practice of law.  Different states have their own tests, but I'm not aware of any that depend on contract principles.  Except in narrow circumstances (e.g., you are an upperclass law student practicing under the supervision of a licensed attorney according to your state's student practice order), non-lawyers may not practice law, which includes interpreting the law as it may apply to a given situation.  Including the OP's, regardless of how trivial you seem to think it is.

I appreciate the support on the one point, but you guys are still misreading me. Contracts? Read below, I already cleared that up. Contract law does not APPLY, I think we all know that...it was a "conceptual" argument, not a literal one, not a substantive one. And that precedent offered below? I cannot believe he took the bait. I know there's no precedent for the situation we are in. I also know what courts and licensing authorities tend to want to deal with and what they do not bother with. When they sanction someone, the offense needs to be a pretty serious one.

As far as bringing up conceptual arguments? You will learn very quickly that attorneys who become adept at making them, as well as being versed in black letter law, will be the same attorneys who get to argue before the US Supreme Court. Conceptual arguments set precedents. Substantive arguments may win or lose cases, but they are rarely outstanding in any way. And any attorney who strives just to make substantive arguments will never be an outstanding attorney. You have to be able to take concepts and apply them theoretically to areas where they seeminly have no application. That's what the contract's argument was about. The crux of a charge of practicing w/o a license would have to be on a reasonable expectation that one party is offering advice that could be relied upon.

Secondly, it would depend upon some type of agreement, expressed or implied. Of course the bar isn't going to be talking about "breach" and other elements, but they will question whether there was any "agreement", b/c that will be a litmus test for whether the so-called agrieved party had any reasonable expectation that the advice could be relied upon.

Thirdly, it will depend upon the capacity in which the so-called offender operated, which goes to say that a lawyer in his practice, a wannabe lawyer presenting himself as a lawyer, or an administrator working in a legal setting, is very different from an online community member who neither represents his advice as being the best or only way to proceed, nor represents himself as a legal expert...no matter how cocky you think I am.

And, my medical analogy was very clever and to-the-point, u would have to admit! That's one we can all relate to.

When the flames come out, I get rather viscious and complicated. When are people going to realize that they are dealing with an exceptional legal talent? And trust me, I will not be getting sanctioned, ever, in my career.


dashrashi

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2009, 11:22:49 PM »
omg.

also, gtq:
I say we all just let nature take its course and let LawDog do what he's going to do. It's better for the legal profession and the world as a whole to allow him to be removed from the situation, be it through failure to pass C&F for practicing without a license or death through misadventure. Because no matter how much convincing or arguing is done, he's going to do it anyway, and no one can convince him that he's wrong. Just let him find out on his own. If you need to correct information that he posted, do it through PM so he doesn't see it and doesn't get the chance to "refute" it with "evidence" or "books" or whatever else he chooses to extract from his rectum.

I liked the bit about "misadventure."
This sig kills fascists.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=dashrashi

Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

archival

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2009, 11:32:02 PM »
When are people going to realize that they are dealing with an exceptional legal talent?

:D
But how do you deal with someone who rejects your broad moral principles?
I kill them.

Miss P

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2009, 12:02:37 AM »
LawDog, please stop telling me what I "will learn very quickly."  I am surprised you haven't yet learned that some of us actually have more knowledge and experience than you do.  I suppose you will learn . . . very slowly.

It doesn't matter whether you have entered into an agreement with the person to whom you offered advice.  It matters whether that person reasonably believes you are offering legal advice in some expert capacity.  Statements like this:

When are people going to realize that they are dealing with an exceptional legal talent?

are what make your posts on topics like this so problematic (and hilarious, yes).
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

mugatu

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2009, 03:45:03 AM »
When are people going to realize that they are dealing with an exceptional legal talent?

:D


:D
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

LawDog3

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2009, 09:28:24 PM »
LawDog, I agree with you about one thing: it probably doesn't matter whether you are offering legal advice on this website, regardless of the ethical considerations, since you participate anonymously.  That said, you really have no idea what you're talking about.  Contract principles, and the related question of whether there's an "agreement that could be established or breached," have nothing to do with whether you have offered legal advice or engaged in the unauthorized practice of law.  Different states have their own tests, but I'm not aware of any that depend on contract principles.  Except in narrow circumstances (e.g., you are an upperclass law student practicing under the supervision of a licensed attorney according to your state's student practice order), non-lawyers may not practice law, which includes interpreting the law as it may apply to a given situation.  Including the OP's, regardless of how trivial you seem to think it is.

I appreciate the support on the one point, but you guys are still misreading me. Contracts? Read below, I already cleared that up. Contract law does not APPLY, I think we all know that...it was a "conceptual" argument, not a literal one, not a substantive one. And that precedent offered below? I cannot believe he took the bait. I know there's no precedent for the situation we are in. I also know what courts and licensing authorities tend to want to deal with and what they do not bother with. When they sanction someone, the offense needs to be a pretty serious one.

As far as bringing up conceptual arguments? You will learn very quickly that attorneys who become adept at making them, as well as being versed in black letter law, will be the same attorneys who get to argue before the US Supreme Court. Conceptual arguments set precedents. Substantive arguments may win or lose cases, but they are rarely outstanding in any way. And any attorney who strives just to make substantive arguments will never be an outstanding attorney. You have to be able to take concepts and apply them theoretically to areas where they seeminly have no application. That's what the contract's argument was about. The crux of a charge of practicing w/o a license would have to be on a reasonable expectation that one party is offering advice that could be relied upon.

Secondly, it would depend upon some type of agreement, expressed or implied. Of course the bar isn't going to be talking about "breach" and other elements, but they will question whether there was any "agreement", b/c that will be a litmus test for whether the so-called agrieved party had any reasonable expectation that the advice could be relied upon.

Thirdly, it will depend upon the capacity in which the so-called offender operated, which goes to say that a lawyer in his practice, a wannabe lawyer presenting himself as a lawyer, or an administrator working in a legal setting, is very different from an online community member who neither represents his advice as being the best or only way to proceed, nor represents himself as a legal expert...no matter how cocky you think I am.

And, my medical analogy was very clever and to-the-point, u would have to admit! That's one we can all relate to.

When the flames come out, I get rather viscious and complicated. When are people going to realize that they are dealing with an exceptional legal talent? And trust me, I will not be getting sanctioned, ever, in my career.



I'm almost at a loss for words. 

lawdog, for the sake of yourself and others PLEASE take the proper meds and/or stop taking the wrong ones in order to put an end to your crazed manic phase.  Seek professional medical help as soon as you can.

It was kinda funny at first but now it is very disturbing. 

Try here first:
http://dasis3.samhsa.gov/Default.aspx


LMAO! Okay...I'll stop the rants. so...let's talk hoops: who's cutting down the nets this year? My money is on Louisville.

likewise

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Re: I Need Your Help - Before a Judge
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2009, 10:27:27 PM »
I'm going to step in and state the obvious. The ethics rules cited (at times) in this thread apply to LAWYERS, not law students. The bar can only discipline LAWYERS (or former lawyers) for the practice of law without a "license." The rules in question are concerned with suspended or disbarred attys providing advice, not with law students providing advice. It is likely INAPPROPRIATE for a law student to provide advice, and any conversation with an Earth person about a legal issue by a law student should be prefaced by the "I'm not a lawyer thing."

Must say, though, this has been a fun read.

I know the OP has already had the hearing, but the best advice on a citation hearing is 1) look presentable (but NOT super snazzy) and 2) be honest, but provide no excuses (keep it short).