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Author Topic: Death sentences for rapists  (Read 6226 times)

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2009, 01:38:09 PM »
I think that the limits people have imposed in this thread are generally good ones. 

Having never experienced being raped, or any involvement with it any way, I don't feel comfortable maintaining that one punishment is more correct than others.  I do think that there's a chance rapists fall into several categories which may need to be dealt with independently (if we're talking rehabilitation - which, to be honest, we are never talking about).

When folks speak of punishment/criminal justice, when does rehabilitation ever figure into the equation?  Or just sparingly.  The only time when rehabilitative ideas enter is when prisons become over crowded.  Only then do we think about rehab for drug addicts.

mugatu

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2009, 01:40:36 PM »
I think that the limits people have imposed in this thread are generally good ones. 

Having never experienced being raped, or any involvement with it any way, I don't feel comfortable maintaining that one punishment is more correct than others.  I do think that there's a chance rapists fall into several categories which may need to be dealt with independently (if we're talking rehabilitation - which, to be honest, we are never talking about).

When folks speak of punishment/criminal justice, when does rehabilitation ever figure into the equation?

the theoretical fringe.  technically, that's what we should be doing.  It's very expensive for society to simply put people in jail (even doubly so since they have to be supported and don't do anything.)
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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2009, 01:43:05 PM »
I just don't think our society really takes rape seriously.  I'm not very good with policy or anything, and I'm a 0L, so take my legal discussions with a big grain of salt.  At any rate, even though this was posted on a law school discussion board, I meant to try to have a philosophical convo about rape and state-sanctioned penalties.  I understand that there are many problems with our cj system, and you guys have covered many.  

At the same time, isn't there somthing fundamentally wrong with our cj system if it fails to bring rapists to justice all the time?  Isn't there something wrong with society if rape isn't taken more seriously?  I guess the whole Chris Brown/Rhianna thing has been in my head a lot lately, and I know it wasn't rape, but the incident (and many of the reactions to it) really seem to dance around a glaring flaw in our society which made me think harder about rape.
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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2009, 01:45:19 PM »
Mugatu, definitely agree.  I'm not sure if or how other countries have been able to incorporate rehabilitation.  I mean, we do offer GED programs, drug rehab, and vocational training inside prison walls, but no one out there is claiming that our prisoners are better people upon release.  Who knows where to even start?  But it'd be a significant public good if we have a logical strategy.

mugatu

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2009, 01:47:01 PM »
To como: I know far less on the topic that many of the people who have posted here, so I will need to defer to them on the fundamentals.

Mugatu, definitely agree.  I'm not sure if or how other countries have been able to incorporate rehabilitation.  I mean, we do offer GED programs, drug rehab, and vocational training inside prison walls, but no one out there is claiming that our prisoners are better people upon release.  Who knows where to even start?  But it'd be a significant public good if we have a logical strategy.

Money.  Start with money.  That doesn't go to the prison guard union or whatever.
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Liz Lemon

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2009, 01:49:01 PM »
Even with a 99.999999% level of certainty, I wouldn't go for it.
Even with a 99.999999% level of certainty, I wouldn't go for it.

thank you.  besides, it's more costly to execute a person than it is to pay for a life sentence.  i love my home state for figuring that out *jersey fist pump*

If we're talking about concerns for justice, though, I don't think cost should be a cardinal factor (unless justice for a rape victim somehow must take into account economic considerations for the society he/she lives in...I don't think it does).
.  

you're right, i apologize for bringing cost into play.  i'm so used to arguing against people who cry about their tax dollars paying to keep people in prison, it's like a natural reflex for me to bring it up.
I think that the limits people have imposed in this thread are generally good ones. 

Having never experienced being raped, or any involvement with it any way, I don't feel comfortable maintaining that one punishment is more correct than others.  I do think that there's a chance rapists fall into several categories which may need to be dealt with independently (if we're talking rehabilitation - which, to be honest, we are never talking about).

there are definitely independent cases.  not to change the subject entirely but it seems that repeat rapists have some serious disorders that need to be addressed.  i think it's difficult to rehabilitate repeat offenders but if rapists were more thoroughly screened and treated the first time they were imprisoned, maybe some repeat offenses could be avoided.

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2009, 01:49:43 PM »
I just don't think our society really takes rape seriously.  I'm not very good with policy or anything, and I'm a 0L, so take my legal discussions with a big grain of salt.  At any rate, even though this was posted on a law school discussion board, I meant to try to have a philosophical convo about rape and state-sanctioned penalties.  I understand that there are many problems with our cj system, and you guys have covered many.  

At the same time, isn't there somthing fundamentally wrong with our cj system if it fails to bring rapists to justice all the time?  Isn't there something wrong with society if rape isn't taken more seriously?  I guess the whole Chris Brown/Rhianna thing has been in my head a lot lately, and I know it wasn't rape, but the incident (and many of the reactions to it) really seem to dance around a glaring flaw in our society which made me think harder about rape.

I think one of the most compelling aspects of this discourse concerns how this behavior goes beyond maximizing a rational utility.  For instance, when one robs a bank, there is a net monetary gain.  Well, of course there are those bank robbers in it for the thrill, these would be the minority.  However, with rape, there's a serious serial and predatory characteristic.  It's an action done for the action itself, not a subsequent utility.  This really casts doubts upon the potential for preventing repeat behavior.  Therefore, removing these offenders from our society permanently often (always?) very necessary.

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2009, 01:51:19 PM »
tbh, I think I'm certain (and maybe most) instances of rape, I think I'd rather have my tax money go to keeping the criminal in jail as opposed to rehabilitating them to live a better life
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mugatu

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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2009, 01:52:47 PM »
you're right, i apologize for bringing cost into play.  i'm so used to arguing against people who cry about their tax dollars paying to keep people in prison, it's like a natural reflex for me to bring it up.

Eh.  I think it's perfectly valid to illustrate the societal costs.  As PJC pointed out (in a different context) it may be a good idea to pursue utility.  
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Re: Death sentences for rapists
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2009, 01:55:56 PM »
tbh, I think I'm certain (and maybe most) instances of rape, I think I'd rather have my tax money go to keeping the criminal in jail as opposed to rehabilitating them to live a better life

I have a strong retributive streak.  I want to see crimes punished.  None of this, 'I'm sorry, won't do it again', business.  And I doubt that we're able to rehabilitate rapists.  However, I'm no expert.

That said, there's a serious public good for rehabilitation.  If we punish criminals but then release them more hardened and cold than they entered, who loses?  Our society benefits from having the most amount of law abiding citizens walking the streets.  If the nature of our prison sentences decreases our safety and comfort, then we should really take a renewed look at rehabilitation. 

The ultimate risk is that we try to rehabilitate criminals and fail.