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Author Topic: Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)  (Read 724 times)

LawDog3

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Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)
« on: March 09, 2009, 07:33:52 PM »
For example...do they get your actual employment files? What if you live in a state that prohibits those files or the information contained therein from being released? Do they go into your financial aid records? Probably. Taxes? Maybe. But I am curious about the employment thing because I have quit a couple of jobs under less than ideal circumstances, and listed them as "voluntary terminations". I also have a few "mutual terminations".

I understand that leaving a job in lieu of "involuntary termination" might still be seen as involuntary termination, but, wouldn't the BAR have to prove that you knew you were about to be terminated? And no company I have ever worked for will give any information besides, name rank and serial number, essentially (pay, dates, etc). Do state BAR's subpoena additional info? 

Most of my schools didn't really delve too deeply into employment, but a few ask about involuntary discharges in their character-fitness sections. I applied to one: Irvine. And I told them about the involuntary terminations, and explained the "mutual terminations".

Another asks about leaving employment "under anything but honorable" conditions (Maryland). I didn't apply there, but I am curious. Does the application want to know about theft or something, or is it concerned with ANY type of negative circumstance?

For the record, I have erred on the side of disclosure, but I am curious about the State BAR's and how far they go.

Thanks in advance.

jacy85

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Re: Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 08:03:28 PM »
Depends on the state; some go deeper than others.  I believe in most cases, unless they spot a problem (something inconsistent btwn your bar app and your law school app or something similar), they won't delve into anything.

And generally, the C&F panel only wants the application of the school you attended, not every app you every put out there.  So if the bar C&F app doesn't ask about involuntary termination or whatever, and your school didn't either, then likely it won't come up unless you bring it up.

And FYI, you don't have to spell out bar in all caps; it's not an acronym.

LawDog3

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Re: Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 01:14:17 AM »
Depends on the state; some go deeper than others.  I believe in most cases, unless they spot a problem (something inconsistent btwn your bar app and your law school app or something similar), they won't delve into anything.

And generally, the C&F panel only wants the application of the school you attended, not every app you every put out there.  So if the bar C&F app doesn't ask about involuntary termination or whatever, and your school didn't either, then likely it won't come up unless you bring it up.

And FYI, you don't have to spell out bar in all caps; it's not an acronym.

Good lookin' out. I have recently heard that some state bars are asking for all applications. so I made sure I was extra careful; I have even saved my electronic apps from last year (I'm a reapplicant, though I have been admitted before) and copied the information so I could be consistent.

I would think that since my openness about my criminal infractions will pan out, they won't have reason to sniff around. I am not too concerned b/c, like I said, I erred on the side of disclosure. But I am curious b/c I've heard that their process is quite invasive...or is that a deterrent for the potential liars? I'm wondering if they interview your former neighbors and all of that.

As far as "BAR" goes...I have actually seen it written that way. But if the acronym spelling is wrong, i don't want to use it.

jacy85

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Re: Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 07:23:07 AM »
I didn't find the process all that invasive.  The worst part about it was going to the damn DMV to get a driving record that had nothing on it (no tickets in the state I live in at all, knock on wood).  Then again, I'm not in an overly demanding state and didn't have much to disclose.  Others may have found the process in their state to be worse.

As long as you've disclosed criminal infractions, you should be fine.  Problems usually only arise if yo didn't disclose, you have arrests/convictions very recent to your C&F exam, or you have a patter of arrests/convictions that demonstrate a serious character flaw that you haven't taken steps to fix.

LawDog3

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Re: Just how deep do state BAR's go? (in their search for info)
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 02:00:05 AM »
I didn't find the process all that invasive.  The worst part about it was going to the damn DMV to get a driving record that had nothing on it (no tickets in the state I live in at all, knock on wood).  Then again, I'm not in an overly demanding state and didn't have much to disclose.  Others may have found the process in their state to be worse.

As long as you've disclosed criminal infractions, you should be fine.  Problems usually only arise if yo didn't disclose, you have arrests/convictions very recent to your C&F exam, or you have a patter of arrests/convictions that demonstrate a serious character flaw that you haven't taken steps to fix.

Well that's not me...no way. On first thought, I thought the employment portion was mostly so they could double-check the criminal part. I mean, if you lost a job b/c of imbezzlement or shoplifting while working at Nordstrom or Macy's, the bar wants to know if you lied about it. Or if you took a haitus from working, and the schools you applied to didn't receive any account for that time gap, it seems that the bar might want to delve into that a bit to make sure you weren't locked up or in a mental institution. So the employment record seems to be a back-door into the criminal record, etc. Is it a good assumption?