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Author Topic: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you  (Read 844 times)

Matthies

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So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« on: March 04, 2009, 02:34:09 PM »
So I’m having this discussion with my classmate who’s taking UCC now, which I have not had but am reviewing for the bar right now and I ask him so is porn a good or service? I would think the DVD its self is a good, thus UCC applies, but is making the porn a service thus common law contracts applies? If I’m making basement porn, am I merchant, even if I’m just doing amateur stuff? Is the K between me and the actresses between merchants?

If I’m an actress in a porn am I selling my “goods’ or my “services”? What about breach, what if the actress claims to do ATM but turns out they don’t what’s the measure of my damages? And if I hire X to do Y, and she does not show up on the set can I get specific performance?

What do you all think, this is important stuff!
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

UnbelievablyTired

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 03:07:53 PM »
These are actually good/interesting questions.  I have no idea as to the first set, but as for the second set...

You couldn't get specific performance because (I'm fairly sure) you have to show that money damages would be insufficient.  Being that money is your goal, I don't think it would fly.  But then again, I'm also retarded. 

Matthies

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 03:22:25 PM »
These are actually good/interesting questions.  I have no idea as to the first set, but as for the second set...

You couldn't get specific performance because (I'm fairly sure) you have to show that money damages would be insufficient.  Being that money is your goal, I don't think it would fly.  But then again, I'm also retarded. 

I can see that argument, but if I hired Jenna Jamison to appear in my movie and she did not, money damages would not make me whole because she is a unique star right? There is only one Jenna.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

bryan9584

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 05:13:50 PM »
I think it depends on who the parties are. If you are hiring people to make a porn such as actors and producers, that could be a service. If you are a distributor of porn, then that is a sale of goods. As for the basement porn maker, if he starts selling them, he or she might be considered a merchant if that "person who deals in goods of the kind or otherwise by his occupation holds himself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to the practices or goods involved in the transaction...."

As for a contract dispute between an actress and producer, that am a close to certain would be under common law. And while it might be difficult for a court to value the expected loss cause of the name recognition, I'm pretty sure courts would agree that forcing someone to be in a pornography would be contrary to public policy. I think there are standards for calculating damages that I don't remember, but if they can't quantify the damages, a court will not award them, however, i think there would be an alternative remedy of the difference between hiring someone else of close recognition.

And an actress would not be a merchant, cause she is not selling goods (and prostitution is illegal so she can't sell her body)


vap

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 07:39:13 PM »
is porn a good or service? I would think the DVD its self is a good, thus UCC applies, but is making the porn a service thus common law contracts applies?

This is the correct analysis, IMHO.

If I’m making basement porn, am I merchant, even if I’m just doing amateur stuff? Is the K between me and the actresses between merchants?

You are probably a merchant when you sell or give a security interest in your DVDs.  However, the K between you and the actresses is a service contract governed by common law.

If I’m an actress in a porn am I selling my “goods’ or my “services”?

I would think this is a service contract if you are an actress being paid by a producer.  If you are an actress and also developing the movie and own the rights to it, I would think you are manufacturing goods.  If you sell a DVD (or online download), you are selling goods.

What about breach, what if the actress claims to do ATM but turns out they don’t what’s the measure of my damages? And if I hire X to do Y, and she does not show up on the set can I get specific performance?

I haven't taken remedies, and I don't really want to hypothesize about the value of an ATM video vs. non-ATM video.

Matthies

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 09:30:04 AM »
is porn a good or service? I would think the DVD its self is a good, thus UCC applies, but is making the porn a service thus common law contracts applies?

This is the correct analysis, IMHO.

If I’m making basement porn, am I merchant, even if I’m just doing amateur stuff? Is the K between me and the actresses between merchants?

You are probably a merchant when you sell or give a security interest in your DVDs.  However, the K between you and the actresses is a service contract governed by common law.

If I’m an actress in a porn am I selling my “goods’ or my “services”?

I would think this is a service contract if you are an actress being paid by a producer.  If you are an actress and also developing the movie and own the rights to it, I would think you are manufacturing goods.  If you sell a DVD (or online download), you are selling goods.

What about breach, what if the actress claims to do ATM but turns out they don’t what’s the measure of my damages? And if I hire X to do Y, and she does not show up on the set can I get specific performance?

I haven't taken remedies, and I don't really want to hypothesize about the value of an ATM video vs. non-ATM video.

Good anaylis but I'm not sure on Bryan's prostitution thing, I thing you could seelf you body as an actress in the film, thus a good, w/o being a prostitute becuase your being paid to act, and by the producer not your sex partner
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

bryan9584

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 10:05:26 AM »
I still have to disagree with a actress being a good. If its not prostitution, then its slavery. Unless in extreme circumstances, courts will not force an individual to work for someone else if they don't want to. I think it has to do something with liberty/freedom... While the end product is a movie, which can be considered a good, the process of making of the movie including acting is a service.

Interesting discussion

Matthies

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 10:13:58 AM »
I still have to disagree with a actress being a good. If its not prostitution, then its slavery. Unless in extreme circumstances, courts will not force an individual to work for someone else if they don't want to. I think it has to do something with liberty/freedom... While the end product is a movie, which can be considered a good, the process of making of the movie including acting is a service.

Interesting discussion

Well it seems to me kind of like a “likeness” a celebrity’s face on your product/box cover, maybe that’s a service, an endorsement, but it’s the physical face/name that is selling your product. Also what about if you hired Tom Cruise to star in your movie, and put out adds for the movie and he breached before filiming the final scene, you don’t think the judge would issue specific performance because only tom cruise can play tom cruise? Think about it, he's perfroming a sercive, acting that is a part of the final good, a movie, without him the in all the required secnes, you have no final good, so he's a service and a part of the final product, a good, right?

I mean if a hired painter to paint my portrait can be forced to do it on breach because he is a unique painter and you hired HIM to do it, can’t an actor be the same thing? He was hired to prcude a good, the painting, through his service painting it. I don’t know, but I don’t think its matters if its acting for a TV commercial or acting for a porn, its still acting, if part of your act is sex and you contracted to act in a sex scncen, then the court could order you to do what you contracted to do or pay damages. Too bad my friend does not have enough guts to ask this in class. I would if I was in the class, but I’m not.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

just some guy

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Re: So who’s taken UCC/Sales? got questions for you
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 10:59:20 AM »
Well, somebody has to say it:

This thread is useless without pictures!!!
I have courted the fire for a very long time, and many sparks have flown in the past, but [this post] speaks, finally, the language of the flame itself.
with apologies to Keith Jarret