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Author Topic: Seriously....what gives!?!!!  (Read 1289 times)

20caliguy

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Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« on: March 02, 2009, 02:28:32 AM »
Alright, I have been wanting to go to law school for the last few years of my undergrad. I took the LSAT, applied to 9 schools, and got accepted into every school I applied to. While none of them are top 50 (a few T2's and some T3's with $$$) I was really excited about law school. However, reading all these posts saying "You wont get a job coming out of anything below T14" makes me second guess my choice of going to law school. I just can't see how the legal market can be THAT horrible. I have a few friends who graduated law school back in 06' and all of them have meaningful jobs (one went to Southwestern here in LA, a T4, and makes close to six figures). They all tell me that the hype about not finding a job is just that...hype. Yet, they all graduated 3 years ago. Two work in government and the one who went to Southwestern says his firm isn't hiring right now but its only a response to the economy being slow and not an accurate reflection of the legal field. However, all these posts and articles being posted point to the contrary.These posts are really discouraging! Seriously, I'm starting to think I should get an MBA instead of a JD to open up more job opportunities. I would really love to be a lawyer (working for the DA is my goal) and I am thinking of attending Drake because they offered me a decent scholarship and seem to have good employment prospects. But even with the scholarship, including my undergrad loans, I would be graduating with roughly $110,000 of debt. Any thoughts on this whole situation of "not finding a job"?

Ninja1

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 02:45:54 AM »
Alright, I have been wanting to go to law school for the last few years of my undergrad. I took the LSAT, applied to 9 schools, and got accepted into every school I applied to. While none of them are top 50 (a few T2's and some T3's with $$$) I was really excited about law school. However, reading all these posts saying "You wont get a job coming out of anything below T14" makes me second guess my choice of going to law school. I just can't see how the legal market can be THAT horrible. I have a few friends who graduated law school back in 06' and all of them have meaningful jobs (one went to Southwestern here in LA, a T4, and makes close to six figures). They all tell me that the hype about not finding a job is just that...hype. Yet, they all graduated 3 years ago. Two work in government and the one who went to Southwestern says his firm isn't hiring right now but its only a response to the economy being slow and not an accurate reflection of the legal field. However, all these posts and articles being posted point to the contrary.These posts are really discouraging! Seriously, I'm starting to think I should get an MBA instead of a JD to open up more job opportunities. I would really love to be a lawyer (working for the DA is my goal) and I am thinking of attending Drake because they offered me a decent scholarship and seem to have good employment prospects. But even with the scholarship, including my undergrad loans, I would be graduating with roughly $110,000 of debt. Any thoughts on this whole situation of "not finding a job"?

Summarize. I don't care to read all of the drivel.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

iahurricane

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 03:36:57 AM »
Alright, I have been wanting to go to law school for the last few years of my undergrad. I took the LSAT, applied to 9 schools, and got accepted into every school I applied to. While none of them are top 50 (a few T2's and some T3's with $$$) I was really excited about law school. However, reading all these posts saying "You wont get a job coming out of anything below T14" makes me second guess my choice of going to law school. I just can't see how the legal market can be THAT horrible. I have a few friends who graduated law school back in 06' and all of them have meaningful jobs (one went to Southwestern here in LA, a T4, and makes close to six figures). They all tell me that the hype about not finding a job is just that...hype. Yet, they all graduated 3 years ago. Two work in government and the one who went to Southwestern says his firm isn't hiring right now but its only a response to the economy being slow and not an accurate reflection of the legal field. However, all these posts and articles being posted point to the contrary.These posts are really discouraging! Seriously, I'm starting to think I should get an MBA instead of a JD to open up more job opportunities. I would really love to be a lawyer (working for the DA is my goal) and I am thinking of attending Drake because they offered me a decent scholarship and seem to have good employment prospects. But even with the scholarship, including my undergrad loans, I would be graduating with roughly $110,000 of debt. Any thoughts on this whole situation of "not finding a job"?

Don't go to Drake.. you will end up practicing in Iowa and die of boredom, especially if you are from California. I grew up in Iowa.. trust me there is NOTHING to do.

win200

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 05:02:52 AM »
I'll give you my two cents, which should probably be taken with a grain of salt, as I'm not an attorney and am only relaying what I've heard.

This site is incredibly T14-heavy. The emphasis here isn't just on T1 schools, but on T14 almost to exclusivity. There's a lot of gloom-and-doom peddling, and the overwhelming sentiment is that if you don't go to a T14 school, you're screwed in terms of ever finding meaningful employment.

The vast majority of people that I've talked to who actually WORK in the legal field (many/most people here don't) differ in their take. If you're trying to work for Perkins or K&L Gates, then yes, you probably should go to a T14 school. But going to a "lesser" school does not preclude having a meaningful career or making good money. It DOES make geography more important (don't go to a T4 school outside of the market you want to practice in).

Point being, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but do similarly with everything else said here. Go talk to attorneys in the market you want to practice in.

Netopalis

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 06:55:33 AM »
I've worked for two top trial lawyers in my hometown, and both attended Cooley.  If you're looking for a huge firm job, yeah, you need T14 or top 10% of your class.  That being said, most of us aren't looking for a firm job, we want something smaller with better hours.  If that's the case, Drake should be fine.
Mercer University School of Law '12

ntiger

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 09:40:21 AM »
1)  This board is very helpful, and I appreciate all the information and advice that I've gotten from it.  That being said, it is skewed towards T-14 schools and can falsely give you the sense that anything below it isn't worth your time.  There are a lot of elitests on here and it is not representative of all law student's and lawyer opinions.

2)  Every lawyer I have ever met says that the hype over the school you attend is just that - hype.  There are few schools whose reputation can follow you your entire career.  For most, the school you graduate from determines your first job out of school.  After that, it is your own ability.  So go with the school you want to attend that will get you the best first job without breaking the bank.

3)  In the words of Rihanna and TI, jus live yo' life.  Dont let the hataz bring u down.  K I'm done.

SamE397

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 10:10:38 AM »
There's very few things that are easier to do than looking down on people who have less options than you. It's one thing to say that you would never go to a a school outside of the t14, t30, T1....when you can pick which law school you'll attend. Granted there are some jobs you won't get if you don't go to a t14 but then again I don't see that as being so much different from other professions. I'm sure that people for example who majored in history at my undergrad Eastern Michigan have less opportunities than someone who got the same degree from Harvard that doesn't mean that the person who went to EM was waisting their time or that the EM degree doesn't open more opportunities and give more financial security.

P.S
Here's a thread where I made some comments that I think would be applicable to this discussion.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,4018258.0.html


Matthies

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 10:44:00 AM »
The thing is there is a very different strategy to finding a job outside of the top 20 schools or so. The majority of people who go to these schools will have a job found for them by the school through OCI. They wonít need to hustle for it, and when they see OCI drying up, the main way they know how to get jobs, they think the sky is falling.

 Itís a very different case at lower ranked schools, most people will not find jobs from OCI, most people wonít work in big law. You need to hustle down here, and make connections and make things happen for yourself, you can just coast on the name of the school. Most law students, especially those coming straight from UG have never had to do this. They donít know what networking is, and meeting strangers is a scary proposition to the majority of people.

So kids at lower ranked school see t14 kids getting offers from OCI and mistakenly think thatís how its going to work for them. And they donít do anything as a backup plan. Well itís not going to work for them, and by the time they figure that out its usually so late in the game they will take whatever crap job they can get.

 The point is donít go to a law school outside the top 20 thinking youíre going to land a job or with a big firm the way those kids do. Itís a stupid strategy that will mean you will be one of those unemployed T2 grads begging for a job on JD Underground. Understand that you need to hustle to get the jobs from 1L on, by making a network of working lawyers and judges long before you need a job, so when it comes time to look for one you have a whole bunch of well placed people helping you. You need a different strategy and you need to make things happen for yourself, unfortunately the vast majority of law students donít get that until itís very late in the game.

Who you know beats where you go, so you have to start right away meeting people outside of school who might have jobs or leads for you 2 years from now when you need them. The law is a very tight nit field, everyone knows everyone else, your contacts will know about jobs that are not even advertised and will personally recommend you for positions by name to people they know. If you donít meet people  you left with mass mailing and responding to newspaper adds, with everyone else, for the same limited number of jobs. That a stupid place to put yourself in, and why most grades have such hard time finding work. They are all using the same methods that work best with a prestigious degree name, while coming from a low ranked school.

 Its not impossible to find a decent paying job from just about any law school, but its takes much more work and effort on the part of the student themselves, making things happen for themselves, opening those doors and meeting people than it does in the top 20. Understand that, make that your primary goal from day one after grades and you will be successful, forget that and rely on OCI or mass mailing as your only job search and youíre going to be hurting, and competing with far more people for fewer jobs.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

TTom

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 11:29:30 AM »
Alright, I have been wanting to go to law school for the last few years of my undergrad. I took the LSAT, applied to 9 schools, and got accepted into every school I applied to. While none of them are top 50 (a few T2's and some T3's with $$$) I was really excited about law school. However, reading all these posts saying "You wont get a job coming out of anything below T14" makes me second guess my choice of going to law school. I just can't see how the legal market can be THAT horrible. I have a few friends who graduated law school back in 06' and all of them have meaningful jobs (one went to Southwestern here in LA, a T4, and makes close to six figures). They all tell me that the hype about not finding a job is just that...hype. Yet, they all graduated 3 years ago. Two work in government and the one who went to Southwestern says his firm isn't hiring right now but its only a response to the economy being slow and not an accurate reflection of the legal field. However, all these posts and articles being posted point to the contrary.These posts are really discouraging! Seriously, I'm starting to think I should get an MBA instead of a JD to open up more job opportunities. I would really love to be a lawyer (working for the DA is my goal) and I am thinking of attending Drake because they offered me a decent scholarship and seem to have good employment prospects. But even with the scholarship, including my undergrad loans, I would be graduating with roughly $110,000 of debt. Any thoughts on this whole situation of "not finding a job"?

I haven't seen a single post that says you won't get a job coming out of a school not in the T-14.

That said, you should think long and hard about going to a ttt school. Even for students at the very top of the class job prospects may be limited.

SamE397

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Re: Seriously....what gives!?!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 11:44:39 AM »
Alright, I have been wanting to go to law school for the last few years of my undergrad. I took the LSAT, applied to 9 schools, and got accepted into every school I applied to. While none of them are top 50 (a few T2's and some T3's with $$$) I was really excited about law school. However, reading all these posts saying "You wont get a job coming out of anything below T14" makes me second guess my choice of going to law school. I just can't see how the legal market can be THAT horrible. I have a few friends who graduated law school back in 06' and all of them have meaningful jobs (one went to Southwestern here in LA, a T4, and makes close to six figures). They all tell me that the hype about not finding a job is just that...hype. Yet, they all graduated 3 years ago. Two work in government and the one who went to Southwestern says his firm isn't hiring right now but its only a response to the economy being slow and not an accurate reflection of the legal field. However, all these posts and articles being posted point to the contrary.These posts are really discouraging! Seriously, I'm starting to think I should get an MBA instead of a JD to open up more job opportunities. I would really love to be a lawyer (working for the DA is my goal) and I am thinking of attending Drakebecause they offered me a decent scholarship and seem to have good employment prospects. But even with the scholarship, including my undergrad loans, I would be graduating with roughly $110,000 of debt. Any thoughts on this whole situation of "not finding a job"?

I haven't seen a single post that says you won't get a job coming out of a school not in the T-14.

That said, you should think long and hard about going to a ttt school. Even for students at the very top of the class job prospects may be limited.

That's just not true..well it maybe true nationally but that said locally it depends very much on the rep of the school. In detroit for example, most of the attorneys at large and mid-sized firms  and in prestige government positions went to Wayne State. Granted if you want to be in NY than maybe a WS degree is limiting but in the detroit market it doesn't limit you at all.

However, it should be noted that the issues that a WS alum would face in trying to break into a large market are not significantly different than the issues that a for example a Nebraska, Case Western, Brigham Young, Baylor, or Kentucky alum would face. There's very few schools that will give you a solid chance at landing employment outside of the region and if you get into one of those schools you should go to them but I don't think you're necessarily limited if you can't.