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Author Topic: Why is it considered acceptable...  (Read 9177 times)

heartbreaker

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 10:09:25 PM »
Some advantages are a result the person's actions, others are the result of events which the person cannot control.  The LSAT, GPA and soft factors are remarkably controllable.  A person can improve their LSAT score by a huge margin by studying, they can improve their GPA by applying themselves and they can improve their soft factors by getting involved.  Can't change your race, though.  As for the above posters, is that truly the only aim of the law schools?  They have other intents in mind as well.  As for blacks and hispanics being disproportionately affected by the CRJ system...that's a very complex issue, but not one of racism.


That's just wrong and has been proven to be wrong so many times. I'd be happy to link you to some literature if I thought you were at all interested or open to learning about this, but essentially, your opposition to affirmative action is based in what Matthies is talking about. You don't care about fairness because if you did, you'd never make that statement.

Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 10:32:30 PM »
Some advantages are a result the person's actions, others are the result of events which the person cannot control.  The LSAT, GPA and soft factors are remarkably controllable.  A person can improve their LSAT score by a huge margin by studying, they can improve their GPA by applying themselves and they can improve their soft factors by getting involved.  Can't change your race, though.  As for the above posters, is that truly the only aim of the law schools?  They have other intents in mind as well.  As for blacks and hispanics being disproportionately affected by the CRJ system...that's a very complex issue, but not one of racism.

You're either full of *&^%, or unbelievably f-ing stupid. Sorry.

2d. Except I wouldn't've said sorry. Are you f-ing kidding?

Netopalis

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 10:39:21 PM »
Well, I'll be honest, I've not done a great deal of research on the matter. I know that in my own town, I'd be shocked if any of the local officers acted in a racist manner - they take great care to make sure that they handle things as evenly as possible.  Perhaps things are different elsewhere - I wouldn't know anywhere outside of the tiny appalachian town in which I live.  That being said, have the last 20 years of affirmative action fixed the problem, or have the changes been the result of a culture that has evolved beyond its racist tendencies?  I tend to think the latter.
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dashrashi

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 10:43:18 PM »
smh. That is all. Un. Real.
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Matthies

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2009, 10:46:43 PM »
Come on you weak ass motherfuckers, I need to feel the sting! Someone roll out the "I grew up as a white kid in a black neighborhood, I know what real racism is" argument again! I know you're out there, Slim Shady. Let's get to kicking!

This one time at band camp I shared a cabin with this black kid. We like totally bonded. He shared with me what it was like to grow up African American and I could totally empathize with his oppression. I felt oppressed too just being in  his company. It was wonderful week, I learned so much about racism and the sting it could have. Of course after that I went back to my middle class suburbs and never talked to the kid again, but I learned so much. It was a year later that I learned what it was like to be Hispanic and homeless. We went on cruise to Mexico and built a Habitat for Humanity house, it was a moving experience being there in my beach side hotel and mingling with the natives I totally came to appreciate what it was like to be Mexican and homeless, to share and understand the depth of their despair, then I went to Cabo and got drunk and hooked up with some Danish kid. I went away from that five day trip with wonderful memories knowing I had grown as a person by living in those peoples shoes.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Netopalis

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »
Look...In all honesty, I never really came here to debate AA.  That wasn't my intention - I just wanted to provide a contrast to the "white=rich" stereotype that was pushed by Matthies.....
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Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2009, 10:52:59 PM »
You need to stfu and read a f-ing book, or an article, or something before you go around making claims that racism does not play a role in the way the criminal justice system acts in different ways on different people. Seriously. And it has more to do with just police officers being fair, btw, just fyi. If you don't, and you spout that nonsense in a law school classroom or hallway or anywhere else and there is any justice in the world you will come out of the experience hurting*.

You should also consider whether, in general, it's a good idea to make broad authoritative statements about any issue, but especially sensitive issues, based on nothing but your own personal and very limited experience.

*I'm not, for the record, suggesting that you should be physically assaulted. But the verbal lashing and reputational hit you'd take for saying something like this, especially if you're not prepared to back it up with something more than "the police officers in my small town aren't racist! and we've all moved beyond our racist tendencies! yay us!" would be, I can only hope, staggering.

heartbreaker

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2009, 10:55:55 PM »
Well, I'll be honest, I've not done a great deal of research on the matter. I know that in my own town, I'd be shocked if any of the local officers acted in a racist manner - they take great care to make sure that they handle things as evenly as possible.  Perhaps things are different elsewhere - I wouldn't know anywhere outside of the tiny appalachian town in which I live.  That being said, have the last 20 years of affirmative action fixed the problem, or have the changes been the result of a culture that has evolved beyond its racist tendencies?  I tend to think the latter.

It's incredibly shortsighted to think that our culture has "evolved beyond its racist tendencies." Yes, we're (for the most part) past the days of the lynching variety of racism. Most racism nowadays is much more subtle, based in policy, legislation, decisions by local law enforcement, etc. Take the "war on drugs" as an example. African-American drug use rates are about the same as white drug use rates, yet African-Americans are arrested at nearly two or three times the rate of whites. A large part of this is because police officers choose to go to neighborhoods where they can pick up drug users on the street (white drug users generally use inside their homes). This has nothing to do with which racial group commits more crimes - this is a policing decision that is racially based and results in racial disparities in arrests. People of color generally have limited access to resources either for their defense or for drug rehab, which leads to racial disparities in jail populations. And so it goes on...

Affirmative action has definitely helped to improve the situation. The presence of African American judges, prosecutors and defense attorneys is beneficial for the goal of fairness in the system. It helps put these issues on the table, first and foremost. It is also very positive for people from communities that are so frequently the target of racial discrimination to feel like they have people on their side, who know where they are coming from. I cited a stat before that an African American male has a 29% chance of going to prison in his lifetime. It is incredibly empowering to see role models as judges or lawyers, to know that you have more options than prison. These are the benefits of affirmative action - you may feel like the policy doesn't help you directly, but if you care about striving for a more equal society, then it does.

Miss P

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2009, 10:58:29 PM »
While reading some of the material posted here, I was struck by something.  Why is it considered acceptable to post unsubstantiated comments, anecdotes, and generalizations about "white people," but no other group?  Why is it assumed that because someone is white that they benefit from legacy status, are a racist, or have ancestors that benefited directly or indirectly from slavery or Jim Crow (before you answer, remember that all of the comm bloc refugees from the late 70's and early 80's were both economically disadvantaged and "white")?  I'm just curious.

This is a canard. 
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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dashrashi

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2009, 11:00:19 PM »
Well, I'll be honest, I've not done a great deal of research on the matter. I know that in my own town, I'd be shocked if any of the local officers acted in a racist manner - they take great care to make sure that they handle things as evenly as possible.  Perhaps things are different elsewhere - I wouldn't know anywhere outside of the tiny appalachian town in which I live.  That being said, have the last 20 years of affirmative action fixed the problem, or have the changes been the result of a culture that has evolved beyond its racist tendencies?  I tend to think the latter.

It's incredibly shortsighted to think that our culture has "evolved beyond its racist tendencies." Yes, we're (for the most part) past the days of the lynching variety of racism. Most racism nowadays is much more subtle, based in policy, legislation, decisions by local law enforcement, etc. Take the "war on drugs" as an example. African-American drug use rates are about the same as white drug use rates, yet African-Americans are arrested at nearly two or three times the rate of whites. A large part of this is because police officers choose to go to neighborhoods where they can pick up drug users on the street (white drug users generally use inside their homes). This has nothing to do with which racial group commits more crimes - this is a policing decision that is racially based and results in racial disparities in arrests. People of color generally have limited access to resources either for their defense or for drug rehab, which leads to racial disparities in jail populations. And so it goes on...

Affirmative action has definitely helped to improve the situation. The presence of African American judges, prosecutors and defense attorneys is beneficial for the goal of fairness in the system. It helps put these issues on the table, first and foremost. It is also very positive for people from communities that are so frequently the target of racial discrimination to feel like they have people on their side, who know where they are coming from. I cited a stat before that an African American male has a 29% chance of going to prison in his lifetime. It is incredibly empowering to see role models as judges or lawyers, to know that you have more options than prison. These are the benefits of affirmative action - you may feel like the policy doesn't help you directly, but if you care about striving for a more equal society, then it does.

My mom would love you. She does anti-bias work, and she always talks about needing to make allies. Apparently my sputtering-and-cursing-out method would not create many allies? Good job for actually taking the reins and trying to help. I worry that anyone that reaches adulthood with this effing view of America is beyond saving, but you and my mom would clearly disagree.

Thanks for doing the hard stuff. It's beyond me.
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.