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Author Topic: Why is it considered acceptable...  (Read 9880 times)

sapereaude2012

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 07:44:18 PM »
Well, my great-great-grandparents were locked into a cycle of poverty in the mines of appalachia due to the predatory practices of the mine companies of the 1920s.  Check out the Matewan Massacre and the events surrounding it - there are plenty of people who are white and not wealthy due to no fault of their own.  My family has worked hard to get where we are today, with me becoming the first member of my family to graduate college this May, and I think that what you have said is a rather far-reaching statement...

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zippyandzap

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 11:30:30 PM »
Economic disadvantage seems to be a major argument for racial preferences.  I have yet to figure out why myself.  It's interesting that you would say that being "poor and white" is a choice though.  Is it a choice to be poor and African American?  Or poor and Latino?  Or are those environmental conditions that require that the playing field be adjusted?

If you are white and have been here for more than two generations there is nothing stopping you from achieving the American dream except choices you made along the way, at least not a history of racism and being kept out of schools and professions until relatively recently. Many generations of Hispanics or blacks were here long enough that had they not had those impediments to entering many schools and professions in addition to racism they could have gone from lower class to upper class by now at least so some degree of parity when comapred the percentage of whites that are middle or upper class. Unfortunately that has only been a reality for one generation or so, so they have much more to make up for and fewer success stories.
What about the impediments my grandfather faced as a Jew, unable to get certain jobs or get into certain schools?  Not to mention the discrimination I've faced...

Netopalis

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 11:46:59 PM »
Or what about the conditions of Irish-Americans in the 1920s-30s?  We're not so far removed from those days.   The problem is basically one that we have been discussing a lot in my history classes.  Everyone's been screwed over at some point in their history - it's just a question of how severely and how recently. 
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Esquire1920

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 08:52:02 AM »
I don't think that one group can claim that no other groups of people have been discriminated against. Discrimination is human nature regardless of it is because you look different or sound different or if you act differently than the majority of people at the time. The difference between the situation of African Americans in THIS country and other groups (without minimizing their particular struggles) is that slavery of Africans took a different turn. It went from enslaving a group of people for an amount of years, to slavery becoming something that was the fate of GENERATIONS of people. Even after all this time of being 'physically free', Blacks suffered at the hands of radical racial extremists for over 100 more years. It is not until recently that they are able to live life without looking over their shoulders. That's a lot to deal with.

I think that it is two sided though. In the same way the Blacks HAVE to move forward without using slavery as a crutch for ALL their problems, Whites in this country have to also adjust to the idea of equality among the races. It's a lot to get used to and 40+ years will NOT erase the damage done for 400+ years. It's just not possible from a logical standpoint.

We can only work with each other and get rid of the pointless hate. Hate me for being a jerk or a 'rare end', but not because of something that I was born with like my skin.

So.... I say all this to say that people are still angry, still hurt, still suffering at the hands of those who refuse to get used to a Jim Crow free society. Everyone deals with things differently. What I don't want, however, is for anyone on this board to minimize the extent of damage done. We all aspire to be or are already legal professionals who are required to think logically and analytically so please don't be igorant. (That goes for EVERYONE)

With that being said, there are ignorant people of all shapes and colors. The faster we all learn to pinpoint them, the easier our lives will be. The poster who wished he had 'white slaves' is ignorant. I'm Black and I can say that. There is nothing amusing about seeing anyone go through that! It is also ignorant to ignore the possiblity that there are genuinely GOOD people out there as well and they don't deserve to be blamed for the actions of others. That's my take. I hope it wasn't offensive, because that wasn't my intent.

Matthies

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2009, 09:02:13 AM »
The simple fact remains, being poor is a choice, people who make $36k a year can still be rich by the end of their lives, the thing is we as humans make choices on whatís more important to us, stability, having a family, working rather than going to school, spend money vs save money, work one job rather than two,  whatever that impact our ability individually to be ďrichĒ or move up to the next scocial class. No one said to my grandparents have six kids oh and by the way you can only get a job as a janitor. They chose to have seven children, to keep seven children, even though it forever meant they would be struggling for $.

Life is about choices, the choices we make, as well as some outside factors, determine what version of the American dream we get. White people, and if you noticed said been here for more than 2 generations (so that excludes recent immigrants), have had fewer impediments to their success. That does not mean there have not been some, yes there have, but a lot of those are due to personal choices we make on what we value, not outside factors holding us back. Thatís my point.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Netopalis

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 09:36:44 AM »
Matthies, I'm not even going to grace that with an honest response.
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Matthies

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 10:13:58 AM »
Matthies, I'm not even going to grace that with an honest response.

Why? Iím being completely serious here. It used to be the American dream was you worked hard and gave up things in your life to make things better for your children. Now we have a generation that thinks America owes them, that they should be rewarded simply because they parents were poor that somehow the world owes them success. BS. There are thousands of students who go to law UG and law school from poor families who WORK while doing so. But there seems to be many more who say because Iím poor I should be given a leg up over the people who worked hard to get there. I donít buy it. I donít think socioeconomic status should be a factor in anyone getting into one school over another. Getting aid, grants, yes, but picking one student who came from a poor family over another student who came from a poor family but works, is just asinine and rewarding a welfare state mentality.

I mean I could not afford to go to college at 18, so I got a job, worked my ass off for 10 years saving money so I could go to UG at 28 then law school after that. And your arguing some 18 y.o. who came from the same background but chose not to work should get preferential treatment over me because his parents were poor? It does not make sense, we used to be a country that valued hard personal work over handouts, and it seem this generation just wants whatever they can get that makes it easier to get into a top school and becomes a top earner with as little work in-between as possible. I personally donít believe life owes anyone anything, life is what you make of it, not what breaks your given. Its this "someone is taking my spot" menality that is making this generation appear self centered and lazy.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Netopalis

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 10:20:23 AM »
Matthies, I have two jobs while in undergrad.  I have received and am gratefuul for aid through merit scholarships alone.  I don't expect or want anyone to give me a "leg up" because they take pity on me, but the flipside of that is that I don't feel particularly impressed by anyone who does want that sort of pity.  If you think you can get rich living at 30k per year, then by all means, drop law school and go for it.  That being said, 30k is barely enough to live on in most places, and people still need to eat.
Mercer University School of Law '12

Matthies

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 10:26:26 AM »
Matthies, I have two jobs while in undergrad.  I have received and am gratefuul for aid through merit scholarships alone.  I don't expect or want anyone to give me a "leg up" because they take pity on me, but the flipside of that is that I don't feel particularly impressed by anyone who does want that sort of pity.  If you think you can get rich living at 30k per year, then by all means, drop law school and go for it.  That being said, 30k is barely enough to live on in most places, and people still need to eat.

I know someome who never made more than 36k a year and retired as a multi millionarie (and was a single mom). How, she saved ans skrimped on anything. Agian, its a choice, she could have bought new cloaths rather than used, she could have bought a new car rather than drive a 10 year old one, se could have gotten cable TV rather than rabbit ears, but she did not, she chose to save and invest every penny she could until she hit 60 and had 2 mill then she bought a new car, a bigger house and took vacation becuase she could. Life is about choices, and the implications of those choices.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Matthies

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Re: Why is it considered acceptable...
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 10:40:25 AM »
I donít have a problem with grants or aid to people from poor backgrounds. I think thatís needed. I do have a problem when we are talking about admissions, saying that someone should be given preference in admissions to certain schools because their parents were poor or rich, does not matter, that rewarding someone not for something they have done on their own, but what their parents did. Iím against that.

And notice its never an issue about minorities taking someone spot at a T4 schools, it only sucks when they take your spot at a top school. Why is that? Why does anyone think they deserve a spot a certain school over someone else? You can still go to law school, you can still be a lawyer you can still make a living, but if it means giving up something along the way, ie. No shot at big law for $160k people get all upset about someone else taking their spot and try to come up with reasons why they should get to take someone elseís spot. Its choices, you can still be a lawyer if you donít get into the t14, but many people, especially those who female dog about AA are not willing to work that hard without a guarantee of riches at the end. Thatís what pisses me off, this whole the world owes you something mentality, it does not.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.