Why is it considered acceptable...

[dashrashi]

Then let's get rid of both AA and need-based scholarships, making it wholly merit-based.  I'm OK with that.

What does merit mean? Note: I'm not asking for a dictionary definition.  I'd like to know how you would define merit in the context of law school admissions.

How can merit be measured in your scenario?

How can we make the tools used to measure merit equitable (since I assume most of the squawking about AA has to do with equity)?

Confidential to MA: No, no, it's way more fun if you let them argue with Matthies. He's making their heads explode. Bringing up the merit stuff or, heaven forfend, the white privilege stuff, will only give them their footing back.

To the thread:
Carry on.

[Matthies]

What you seem to be saying is that the color of your skin matters more than, and indeed determines, your circumstances.  You're telling me that a black child whose parents have the same means as his white counterparts, who attends the same schools with the same teachers, who participates in the same activities, somehow needs additional points on his aplication.  

Yea, there are  a lot of Cosby families out there. Its simple, my solution, get the womenz back in house and there is room enough for all men, regardless of color.

Again if affirmative action only took place at T4 schools we would not be having this debate. This whole thing is not about race, it’s about our own self interest, we don't like it becuase it does not benifit us. Trust me law school attracts the most self centered folks you can imagine. Life’s not fair, law schools not fair, those are the breaks. Would I give up being a white male to get into Harvard, no. Am I going to lose sleep over the fact that someone got in there because their people used to be lynched on the street for fun, no.

[Jamie Stringer]

Dash, I hope I see you at HLS when I visit  

[dashrashi]

Tell me when you're coming and I'll come say hi and/or save you from one of the freakshows who will eventually end up at Stanford.

[Netopalis]

Gretchen,
   I would define "merit" as follows:

   A comparison of one's GPA/LSAT to other incoming students at the same school, adjusting by up to 7 LSAT points either way to account for soft factors, adversity overcome, personality and general fit within the aims of the law school.

[heartbreaker]

I don't understand how yall don't get it.

A black male, born in 1991, has a 29% chance of spending time in jail at some point in his life. A Hispanic male has a 16% chance. A white male has a 4% chance. In Maryland, 70% of drivers pulled over by cops are black. Blacks make up 17% of drivers in Maryland. There are some states where 1/4 of black males are ineligible to vote because of felony disenfranchisement laws.

People of color are disproportionately affected by the criminal justice system and disproportionately underrepresented in criminal justice administration. How do you not see the benefits of more diversity in the legal profession?

Gretchen,
   I would define "merit" as follows:

   A comparison of one's GPA/LSAT to other incoming students at the same school, adjusting by up to 7 LSAT points either way to account for soft factors, adversity overcome, personality and general fit within the aims of the law school.

The aims of law schools are to increase diversity in the legal profession. Done.

[Jamie Stringer]

I don't understand how yall don't get it.

A black male, born in 1991, has a 29% chance of spending time in jail at some point in his life. A Hispanic male has a 16% chance. A white male has a 4% chance. In Maryland, 70% of drivers pulled over by cops are black. Blacks make up 17% of drivers in Maryland. There are some states where 1/4 of black males are ineligible to vote because of felony disenfranchisement laws.

People of color are disproportionately affected by the criminal justice system and disproportionately underrepresented in criminal justice administration. How do you not see the benefits of more diversity in the legal profession?

Gretchen,
   I would define "merit" as follows:

   A comparison of one's GPA/LSAT to other incoming students at the same school, adjusting by up to 7 LSAT points either way to account for soft factors, adversity overcome, personality and general fit within the aims of the law school.

The aims of law schools are to increase diversity in the legal profession. Done.

[Matthies]

Ok what if we were able to come up with an admissions system that was completely, absolutely fair given no one an advantage at all, everyone would be for that right, because its fair and that’s all you really want is fairness in the admissions process.

Ok so we put everyone who is applying to law schools name in a hat. Then each law schools draws out a name in order of US News Ranking from Yale to Cooley. Who draws your name is where you go. Completely fair, no person has any advantage over another due to race, or wealth, test prep, easy  major or anything else. Everyone is happy right?

Of course not, that would freak you guys the F out and you would go running into the halls screaming like a prepubescent girl. Why? Because at the root of this entire discussion is not really fairness, its advantage, you just can’t admit it. In the present system you all have an advantage over someone else, be that LSAT score, GPA, major. school whatever, and you like it that way. All except that one guy who is the worlds worst applicant, he does not have any advantage over anyone else.

But anyway, deep down in your mammalian brain its not really fairness you want, its you just don’t want anyone to have an advantage over you, its ok if you have an advantage over them though. If fairness means you lose your advantage, then you’re not for it.

That what all this is about, self preservation, self interest. Call it reverse racism, call it AA, call it fairness, whatever, but deep down what you really want is an advantage over someone else without someone having an advantage over you.

Its just easier to have someone to blame like minorities or women, then to admit the root of the issue is we are all selfish and want a leg up and get pissed when some get a leg up over us. Nobody really truly wants a completely fair system, because we all want some advantage over somebody.

[Netopalis]

Some advantages are a result the person's actions, others are the result of events which the person cannot control.  The LSAT, GPA and soft factors are remarkably controllable.  A person can improve their LSAT score by a huge margin by studying, they can improve their GPA by applying themselves and they can improve their soft factors by getting involved.  Can't change your race, though.  As for the above posters, is that truly the only aim of the law schools?  They have other intents in mind as well.  As for blacks and hispanics being disproportionately affected by the CRJ system...that's a very complex issue, but not one of racism.

[dashrashi]

Some advantages are a result the person's actions, others are the result of events which the person cannot control.  The LSAT, GPA and soft factors are remarkably controllable.  A person can improve their LSAT score by a huge margin by studying, they can improve their GPA by applying themselves and they can improve their soft factors by getting involved.  Can't change your race, though.  As for the above posters, is that truly the only aim of the law schools?  They have other intents in mind as well.  As for blacks and hispanics being disproportionately affected by the CRJ system...that's a very complex issue, but not one of racism.

You're either full of *&^%, or unbelievably f-ing stupid. Sorry.