Thomas M. Cooley Vs. Nova Southeastern AAMPLE program

[randyers09]

UGH, this makes me wish i had applied to denver... I had it on my list to apply to and i dropped it off because I didnt think I had a shot in hell. O wellll

[Matthies]

UGH, this makes me wish i had applied to denver... I had it on my list to apply to and i dropped it off because I didnt think I had a shot in hell. O wellll

They truned me down the first year I applied, the second year I had two semsters of law grades, so my "numbers don't match my ability" argument was easy to belive. I ended up getting into a buch of schools my second try, even a T1. But I wanted to be at Denver, this is where I want to work and umm, ski

[randyers09]

lol nice, well good luck to you!

[Contract2008]

Granted, but it will be my third time taking the LSAT. <12/08(145) 09/07(138)> Is the option of transferring that minuscule to consider? I succumbed to a low SAT score as well, so it would be safe to say I am not the best at standardized tests.

Let's talk about reality here.  If you are a bad standardized test taker and you barely got into a university, that's fine.  As long as you graduate.  That's not the case with law.  At the end of three years and $$$$ in debt, you have another standardized test, the bar exam. Keep in mind that a big chunch of the top students from Nova and Cooley fell this exam.  Keep in mind that a big percentage of entering class at these schools do not end up graduating and the ones that do, a big chunk of them do not pass the bar exam. 

There are only 4 law schools in Florida that are worth considering and we all know those 4.  You should seriously consider taking the LSAT again and applying to cheaper Tier 3 public schools else where, where you can get in-state tution after the first year.  Nova, Florida Coasta, and Cooley definitely are not worth their price tags.  Can you imagine spending 3 years of your life along with 3 years accumulated debts (tuition, books, cost of living) and not passing the bar or passing the bar and not able to find a job due to competition from graduates of much better schools. 

[latinlord]

Granted, but it will be my third time taking the LSAT. <12/08(145) 09/07(138)> Is the option of transferring that minuscule to consider? I succumbed to a low SAT score as well, so it would be safe to say I am not the best at standardized tests.

Let's talk about reality here.  If you are a bad standardized test taker and you barely got into a university, that's fine.  As long as you graduate.  That's not the case with law.  At the end of three years and $$$$ in debt, you have another standardized test, the bar exam. Keep in mind that a big chunch of the top students from Nova and Cooley fell this exam.  Keep in mind that a big percentage of entering class at these schools do not end up graduating and the ones that do, a big chunk of them do not pass the bar exam. 

There are only 4 law schools in Florida that are worth considering and we all know those 4.  You should seriously consider taking the LSAT again and applying to cheaper Tier 3 public schools else where, where you can get in-state tution after the first year.  Nova, Florida Coasta, and Cooley definitely are not worth their price tags.  Can you imagine spending 3 years of your life along with 3 years accumulated debts (tuition, books, cost of living) and not passing the bar or passing the bar and not able to find a job due to competition from graduates of much better schools. 

First off I was wrong in saying that Cooley has 40 transfer out... way wrong... just checked last year they 185 people transfer out!! 185!!

Next Mathesis is completely right!! Listen to him!

Also FYI... if your so worried about the bar exam... apply to a wisconson school and move there... students don't have to take their bar if they go to a school in the state, then after a couple of years you can waive into other states... Just FYI!! haha

Also... the bar exam is standardized for 1day... b/c it is multiple choice.. BUT not like the LSAT... you learn the material that is on it for the past 3 years, then you have a bar review course to help you out AND also the next day of exams are NOT standardized but Essay and in some states like Pennsylvania the essay day is worth more than the standardized test day! Also you only have to pass whereas in the LSAT you are graded on in relation to your peers.
  I haven't taken the bar yet.. but I took the MPRE which is a multiple choice exam that is standardized.. I studied the material and rocked it.. it gave me the confidence that I can do something right if I try.
   
  If you do fail the bar retake it.. But even for cooley grads over half who take the bar pass.. .I think their rate is about 70%... that is 70 out of 100 so why can't you be part of that 70? Going to cooley or florida costal is NOt a death sentance so don't treat it like it is. It is just a beginning, sure it may be a path different than most want to take.. but hey sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do! I didn't want to move to Indiana and stay there for 2 years.. although it is an incredible school! I would have gladly moved to Michigan and played socratic method at Cooley too. If I wasn't at Indiana, i would have gone to florida.. Not florida coastal though.. They didn't accept me!!.. but Nova South eastern did and FAMU and perhaps St. Thomas in Miami... I probibly would have liked the weather better there. But then the next year i would apply to transfer and leave, if that didn't work out the way i wanted, then the next year I would apply to visit a school for my final year like I am this year. Either way... i would be right where I am now, graduating and taking both the PA and NJ bar exams... you know why?? B/c all of them ARE accredited law schools and that allows me to sit for ANY bar in the country. I would have still worked at the DA's office, and I would have still applied and "hopefully" gotten into Temple law for an ll.m. since they like my litigation experience at the DA's office.

My route was not my first choice BUT I am still thankful for it and for the great opportunites and times I had in Indiana.. I met some of the best people I have ever met in my life and built life long friendships with people there and some of them moved to the east coast so now I can help them out!! It is all about Networking!!
   Cooley grads.... since it is the largest law school in the country are all OVER the country.

Do what you want.. don't give up b/c then you won't have the opportunity to say you "tried".

Good luck! Keep me posted on your endevors!!

[SellinEvo84Law]

What section is difficult for you to understand? I am simply asking for knowledge (from past experiences) pertaining to this type of decision. So you think I shouldn't attend law school for reasons to you not being able to understand my post? Or because of my choices?  I appreciate your comments.

I think it is important to be honest and frank because too many people hastily make the choice to go to law school. So, please don't take my comments as mean. Here's why I don't think you should go to law school: (1) these are not good schools (so bad that you aren't even guaranteed a legal job after graduating; (2) you are paying full tuition or close to it; (3) your writing ability is sub-par (your post with filled with incorrectly used cliches); and (4) there's no reason to believe you will do well once you are there because your GPA and LSAT are both low.

I just don't think this is a wise investment. I'm sure you have plenty of other talents and suggest that you pursue those rather than entering an already bloated legal market.

Sigh. I disagree with both idea and comments in this thread. There are two types of law students that do well, those that work very hard to do so, and those that work very hard to get into schools that make it easier for them to do well. The latter far outnumber the former, but there are former success stories. Only the OP knows what type of person he/she is, a fighter or a roll over and play dead (i.e. see students side of board: “I’m at top 20 had five bids OCI and did not get a job shoot self?”). I’m not saying the odds will not be against the OP, they certainly are. But there have been against many of us, yet two of us, myself and latinlord over came both to be successful. That has nothing to do with the school, it has to do with what’s inside the OP. And only the OP knows if they are enough of a fighter to beat the odds, most people aren’t, but a few are. And for those few I say go where you can and make the best of it.

I fit all the things you say make a bad LS candidate. (1) I don’t go to a good school, (2) I paid full tuition (and worked to offset that while going to LS), (3) I am a horrible writer, I have sever dyslexia, did not learn to read or write my own name till I was 10 years old, yet I’ve been published in law reviews several times, as well as local bar publications (4) I had horrible numbers, 150/2.9. So bad that I had to convince a school to let me try law classes before the JD, so I started an LLM/MLS and took advanced law classes against 2 and 3Ls under the same testing conditions without having the first year of law school, and I smoked them, getting a 3.65 GPA in 24 credits and taking highest grade in the class twice. That got me into the JD program, where I’m now ranked 13th in my class and have several job offerings for when I graduate in May with the JD and the LLM/MLS.
 
I would have been successful if I went to Cooley, or if I went to Yale, because, just like LatianLord, I was never going to roll over and play dead. Granted, people like me and LL are few and far between, but they are out there, and I will always encourage them to go for it, IF THEY ARE THAT TYPE, because if they listen to the common wisdom, mostly from the roll over type, they will never succeed. So the question is, OP are you willing to work that hard, to never give up, to pick yourself up off the ground, to have people say you can’t make it but prove them wrong? If you can answer yes, honestly, to all those questions, then go for it. If you can’t, then don’t. Thr roll over type will get killed at schools like those. Either give up on law school or keep re-taking the LAST until you can get into a law school that will do more for you than you can do for yourself.

I appreciate all the guidance. I am a fighter! I am not the "roll over type." I understand I will have to climb many more rungs to get where I want to be, but I have been doing that from the start. During my undergraduate I worked an average of 50Hrs./Wk. People told me throughout my undergraduate major selection, Sports Management, that I was not going to get a job. During my time I scheduled meetings with V.P of Daytona Speedway, to basically sell myself for an internship that did not exist. With a successful sale, I created not only an internship, but a position that I ultimately have given up to pursue a law degree. So I have always had the drive and strong work ethic to do more than most. It will be hard, if it was easy everyone would do it.
I do not plan on graduating from Cooley. I do not plan on practicing in Michigan, but isn't it safe to say that many people attend a school that they transfer out of simply because they were not accepted to a school in the state they intend to practice? It is unfortunate I will not be able to wait and hear from all the schools I applied. I completed, on my part, all my applications by January 15, and still have not heard from all. I am hoping, with a recent reach out to the people at Barry U. that I will be accepted from the wait list prior to April 1, which is the deadline to secure a seat for Cooley, as well as the AAMPLE.

[SellinEvo84Law]

What are the thoughts on North Carolina Central University? I have yet to hear from them, but my numbers are approximate to what they admit. Is accepting an offer from a different school after you have sent in payment to secure a seat at another shunned upon? Really a sidebar, but I want to get good advice while I have serious individuals with valuable input in this post 

[Ninja1]

What are the thoughts on North Carolina Central University? I have yet to hear from them, but my numbers are approximate to what they admit. Is accepting an offer from a different school after you have sent in payment to secure a seat at another shunned upon? Really a sidebar, but I want to get good advice while I have serious individuals with valuable input in this post 

NCCU = No.

[Matthies]

What are the thoughts on North Carolina Central University? I have yet to hear from them, but my numbers are approximate to what they admit. Is accepting an offer from a different school after you have sent in payment to secure a seat at another shunned upon? Really a sidebar, but I want to get good advice while I have serious individuals with valuable input in this post 

you can put down as may seat deposits as you can afford, just be sure to withdraw as soon as your not going there so anouther can get in.

[Matthies]

What section is difficult for you to understand? I am simply asking for knowledge (from past experiences) pertaining to this type of decision. So you think I shouldn't attend law school for reasons to you not being able to understand my post? Or because of my choices?  I appreciate your comments.

I think it is important to be honest and frank because too many people hastily make the choice to go to law school. So, please don't take my comments as mean. Here's why I don't think you should go to law school: (1) these are not good schools (so bad that you aren't even guaranteed a legal job after graduating; (2) you are paying full tuition or close to it; (3) your writing ability is sub-par (your post with filled with incorrectly used cliches); and (4) there's no reason to believe you will do well once you are there because your GPA and LSAT are both low.

I just don't think this is a wise investment. I'm sure you have plenty of other talents and suggest that you pursue those rather than entering an already bloated legal market.

Sigh. I disagree with both idea and comments in this thread. There are two types of law students that do well, those that work very hard to do so, and those that work very hard to get into schools that make it easier for them to do well. The latter far outnumber the former, but there are former success stories. Only the OP knows what type of person he/she is, a fighter or a roll over and play dead (i.e. see students side of board: “I’m at top 20 had five bids OCI and did not get a job shoot self?”). I’m not saying the odds will not be against the OP, they certainly are. But there have been against many of us, yet two of us, myself and latinlord over came both to be successful. That has nothing to do with the school, it has to do with what’s inside the OP. And only the OP knows if they are enough of a fighter to beat the odds, most people aren’t, but a few are. And for those few I say go where you can and make the best of it.

I fit all the things you say make a bad LS candidate. (1) I don’t go to a good school, (2) I paid full tuition (and worked to offset that while going to LS), (3) I am a horrible writer, I have sever dyslexia, did not learn to read or write my own name till I was 10 years old, yet I’ve been published in law reviews several times, as well as local bar publications (4) I had horrible numbers, 150/2.9. So bad that I had to convince a school to let me try law classes before the JD, so I started an LLM/MLS and took advanced law classes against 2 and 3Ls under the same testing conditions without having the first year of law school, and I smoked them, getting a 3.65 GPA in 24 credits and taking highest grade in the class twice. That got me into the JD program, where I’m now ranked 13th in my class and have several job offerings for when I graduate in May with the JD and the LLM/MLS.
 
I would have been successful if I went to Cooley, or if I went to Yale, because, just like LatianLord, I was never going to roll over and play dead. Granted, people like me and LL are few and far between, but they are out there, and I will always encourage them to go for it, IF THEY ARE THAT TYPE, because if they listen to the common wisdom, mostly from the roll over type, they will never succeed. So the question is, OP are you willing to work that hard, to never give up, to pick yourself up off the ground, to have people say you can’t make it but prove them wrong? If you can answer yes, honestly, to all those questions, then go for it. If you can’t, then don’t. Thr roll over type will get killed at schools like those. Either give up on law school or keep re-taking the LAST until you can get into a law school that will do more for you than you can do for yourself.

I appreciate all the guidance. I am a fighter! I am not the "roll over type." I understand I will have to climb many more rungs to get where I want to be, but I have been doing that from the start. During my undergraduate I worked an average of 50Hrs./Wk. People told me throughout my undergraduate major selection, Sports Management, that I was not going to get a job. During my time I scheduled meetings with V.P of Daytona Speedway, to basically sell myself for an internship that did not exist. With a successful sale, I created not only an internship, but a position that I ultimately have given up to pursue a law degree. So I have always had the drive and strong work ethic to do more than most. It will be hard, if it was easy everyone would do it.
I do not plan on graduating from Cooley. I do not plan on practicing in Michigan, but isn't it safe to say that many people attend a school that they transfer out of simply because they were not accepted to a school in the state they intend to practice? It is unfortunate I will not be able to wait and hear from all the schools I applied. I completed, on my part, all my applications by January 15, and still have not heard from all. I am hoping, with a recent reach out to the people at Barry U. that I will be accepted from the wait list prior to April 1, which is the deadline to secure a seat for Cooley, as well as the AAMPLE.

Its sounds like you are the type of person who could succeed on their own, but you will have to be. You’re going to get very little support in finding jobs from these schools, you’re going to rejection a lot if you just mass mail for jobs. Your curve is going to be harsh, meaning you’ll have to work harder than if you got into a higher ranked school. Some of your competition will be extreme, as they are trying everything to be first so they can get out.

You’re going to have to rely on yourself much more than you would at higher ranked schools. You’re going to have to make things work by doing it yourself, from a school with a bad reputation in a down legal market. So long as you know all of this yet believe inside you have what it takes to make your own future even when the odds are against you, then go for it. But never forget you and only you will be the one who succeeds or fails, you just don’t have the support that students at higher ranked schools do.

You’re going to have to create your own opportunities at every step. I would suggest getting the book Guerilla Tactics for Getting the Law Job of your Dreams by Kimm Walton and reading it cover to cover before law school. You won’t have the luxury at these schools to ever coast or rely on the school to help you pass the bar and get a job. You have to understand, and be willing to accept that all of this, success or fail, is on your shoulders and its going to be a daily fight. If you can really handle that, then go. If you have ANY doubts, don’t go.