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Author Topic: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'  (Read 6473 times)

sheltron5000

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2009, 01:56:40 PM »
Fortunately, most of us (except MA, young'un) are at an age where we really need to start using man and woman, so this conversation is really academic.

isn't it?

LMFAO!

My dear, I'm pretty sure I'm older than you!





Sorry, that was HB ;) I get all these beautiful people 'tars mixed up... ::)





Which is really interesting considering that whole (xx/xy) thing.

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here. The othering issue?

Quote
I guess my issue, SBA, is that I am a fairly practical person, and the things you object to don't seem to have solutions. And truth be told, the reason I tried to think about why we use those words the way we do is that it IS germane to understand what the word MEANS when it is used, I give you the example:
[image removed for aesthetic purposes]
Mostly, that was just for fun, but I think you see my point.

How do I differentiate in my everyday conversation between a 20 year-old woman and a 60 year-old woman?

Why do you need a specific word to differentiate between a 20 year old and a 60 year old? If it actually matters, then you can and almost certainly will make it clear in other ways than calling the younger woman a girl. As I said above, clinging to a problematic usage because it's easy and efficient is laziness, pure and simple.

With respect to the germaneness argument...I say that it doesn't really matter to my point because I'm starting from the position that it does do things that are problematic and offensive to some people, which I think you've agreed with. If that's the case, it doesn't really matter to me where it came from. It's really just not what I'm concerned with.

And I am offering a solution: avoid gendered language when it's irrelevant, and err on the side of adult language when it's questionable where a person fits in. It certainly isn't a perfect solution, and nothing will be...language is complicated and full of baggage. But we can make choices that are better than others.



SBA I think we agree on everything but what to do about it. I just think we need to differentiate between old and young, male and female, because it helps us clarify our referents to our interlocutors.

Also, (xx/xy) is about chromosomes, when you were mentioning the cultural lean to see masculinity as the default, when really the feminine chromosome is the more common, the one that EVERYONE has, as opposed to the y.
LSN

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Jamie Stringer

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2009, 02:02:14 PM »

Sorry, that was HB ;) I get all these beautiful people 'tars mixed up... ::)

Pshhh, and here I just thought you were a shameless flatterer ;D

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F*cking bi+ch drinks a 1 oz bottle of goose and thinks she's French

Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2009, 02:07:02 PM »

SBA I think we agree on everything but what to do about it. I just think we need to differentiate between old and young, male and female, because it helps us clarify our referents to our interlocutors.

Also, (xx/xy) is about chromosomes, when you were mentioning the cultural lean to see masculinity as the default, when really the feminine chromosome is the more common, the one that EVERYONE has, as opposed to the y.

Well, I guess I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree with you then. A major part of my feminism/general worldview is the belief that we use and rely on sex/gender based differentiations far more than is necessary, and that this is detrimental because it can serve to reinforce the foundations of sexism (and also a sex dichotomy/gender dichotomy that I don't buy into).

But also, I think I need to note here that I'm not saying that you shouldn't differentiate between old and young, male and female, where it is appropriate or necessary - there are times when that is important context. What I'm disputing is that calling adult women "girls" is a good or needed way of doing that. Sure, it gets fuzzy when someone is in their late teens/early 20s...I favor erring on the side of caution/respectfulness.

Jamie Stringer

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2009, 02:09:15 PM »
Get a sense of humor, Susan B. Anthony!

 ;D
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Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2009, 02:10:32 PM »
Get a sense of humor, Susan B. Anthony!

 ;D

I WILL NEVER!

sheltron5000

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2009, 02:11:28 PM »
So we agree to disagree. Sort of.

Fair enough.


But can I at least get a lol on my genetics comment? I mean come on!  8)
LSN

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2009, 02:21:17 PM »


But can I at least get a lol on my genetics comment? I mean come on!  8)

No sense of humor, remember?!

I mean, but really, probably no lol because I...don't see why that's funny? I guess I've spent too much time studying and being annoyed by the way science has relied on erroneous assumptions about women and men that have harmed women (and men, because Patriarchy Hurts Men Too!!!!) scientifically and socially.

Matthies

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2009, 02:23:04 PM »


But can I at least get a lol on my genetics comment? I mean come on!  8)

No sense of humor, remember?!

I mean, but really, probably no lol because I...don't see why that's funny? I guess I've spent too much time studying and being annoyed by the way science has relied on erroneous assumptions about women and men that have harmed women (and men, because Patriarchy Hurts Men Too!!!!) scientifically and socially.

\Yea, since told me womenz don't have tails, but they do, I seen em
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Dreamy Boss Man

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2009, 04:02:34 PM »
Alright, so there's this girl that I like.  There I go, already calling her "a girl".  Anyways, she works for me so I'm in a position of authority.  However, she's quite young and it'd be very odd for me to call her "a woman".  She doesn't refer to herself as a woman and would probably find it odd.  The thing is, I could keep it strictly professional, but we have a thing for each other (I think).  I think that if I added formality, it'd make things even more awkward than it is.  So I'm struggling to adhere by business standards or by our flirtatious relationship.  She's going to go to HYS, does this change how I should approach her?  OH HB COME TO ME!  :-[

Dreamy Boss Man

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Re: Referring to a fully mature female peer as a 'girl'
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2009, 04:17:01 PM »
Alright, so there's this girl that I like.  There I go, already calling her "a girl".  Anyways, she works for me so I'm in a position of authority.  However, she's quite young and it'd be very odd for me to call her "a woman".  She doesn't refer to herself as a woman and would probably find it odd.  The thing is, I could keep it strictly professional, but we have a thing for each other (I think).  I think that if I added formality, it'd make things even more awkward than it is.  So I'm struggling to adhere by business standards or by our flirtatious relationship.  She's going to go to HYS, does this change how I should approach her?  OH HB COME TO ME!  :-[

I love you.

Who?  "Him" or "I"?  So so so awkward.