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Author Topic: Why does everyone hate a gunner?  (Read 5908 times)

loki13

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »
This is how I read the situation.  If you're at a T14 school, you probably were a gunner in UG.  In UG, there's a ton of knuckleheads and disinterested students.  However, at a T14 or 25, or even at most law schools in general, nearly all of the students have had success by being highly motivated - which often comes out through participation.

Thus, you have a classroom of people who would all like to talk.  However, the majority of students understand that we must keep our thoughts to ourselves.  We all can't talk.  Therefore, if you have a general question that helps to illuminate the text - an occasional question does not make you a gunner.

However, students that feel the need to always participate are very aggrivating.  It's like the entire class understands that comments need to be kept to a very moderate minimum.  When gunners go nuts, that even further limits your ability to talk.  So if the comments of the gunner are particularly unneeded, you'll get pissed off.


In terms of the gunner who does not talk in class yet is highly competitive, I imagine this might be disliked even more.  Collegiality is a public good.  The more everyone contributes to this good, the more it exists.  Most people prefer collegiality.  However, hyper competitive students reduce the overall level of collegiality.  It brings out competitiveness in other students who otherwise would have played nice. 

Everything written above is correct. Let me add the following (in a Jeff Foxworthy fashion):

You just might be a gunner if:
1. Your law school nick name is "helium hands".
2. After your answer, the next student answers a question by saying, "And then, bingo, the court found personal jurisdiction."
3. As you clear your throat to begin answering a question, you can actually hear the sounds of eyes rolling.
4. The professor always scans the room for at least five seconds when you raise your hand, and then sighs before saying your name.
5. You continually marvel that in a lecture class of eighty people, only you are insightful enough to know the answer each time.
6. You begin to seriously wonder how the other students in the class would ever pass the exam without the knowledge elicited by your penetrating questions, and, moreover, how the professor could possibly have taught this course without considering those issues.
7. "[Your name] is a tool" is the most popular facebook group in your 1L class.

Netopalis

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 10:27:39 AM »
Basically, the problem that I'm facing, though, is this....Generally speaking, in undergrad, I've tended to ask a lot of questions, and I feel that it's really helped my understanding of things...Basically, asking questions is the way that I learn.  I try to keep it relevant, and try to keep it to a minimum...But there are a lot of times where the professor makes a logical leap that doesn't quite make sense to me, and I get the feeling that a lot of other students don't understand it either.  My concern is that I'll be faced with a choice - either go without understanding the material and get a bad grade or be seen as a gunner and completely alienate my peers.  Any thoughts?
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CTL

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 10:35:09 AM »
Basically, the problem that I'm facing, though, is this....Generally speaking, in undergrad, I've tended to ask a lot of questions, and I feel that it's really helped my understanding of things...Basically, asking questions is the way that I learn.  I try to keep it relevant, and try to keep it to a minimum...But there are a lot of times where the professor makes a logical leap that doesn't quite make sense to me, and I get the feeling that a lot of other students don't understand it either.  My concern is that I'll be faced with a choice - either go without understanding the material and get a bad grade or be seen as a gunner and completely alienate my peers.  Any thoughts?

If it's a few quick questions, I think you're probably game to ask without fear..

Another option might be to write them down and ask peers in a study group.  They might have picked up on something you didn't, and that way your reputation is that of a team player.  If everyone is confused in your study group, it's probably a question that you could ask your professor in or out of class.
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Stole Your Nose!

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2009, 10:38:00 AM »
I think the whole law school culture of "NEVER SAY ANYTHING IN CLASS" is pretty childish and goes too far. 

But people hate gunners because usually the people who talk the most have the least to say.

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2009, 01:51:40 PM »
Obnoxious narcissim is a good way to put it.

One more lesson: there is such a thing as an "out-of-class" gunner.  Try not to be one of these people, though I tried and still ended up labeled with the title.  I dunno.  I guess I shouldn't talk about law school so much.  Maybe people saw through me.

There's also another kid with the title, but he wrote that idiotic lawannounce e-mail about gaming.

CTL

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2009, 02:29:44 PM »
What is this notorious email incident?
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dashrashi

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2009, 02:53:27 PM »
This is how I read the situation.  If you're at a T14 school, you probably were a gunner in UG.  In UG, there's a ton of knuckleheads and disinterested students.  However, at a T14 or 25, or even at most law schools in general, nearly all of the students have had success by being highly motivated - which often comes out through participation.

Thus, you have a classroom of people who would all like to talk.  However, the majority of students understand that we must keep our thoughts to ourselves.  We all can't talk.  Therefore, if you have a general question that helps to illuminate the text - an occasional question does not make you a gunner.

However, students that feel the need to always participate are very aggrivating.  It's like the entire class understands that comments need to be kept to a very moderate minimum.  When gunners go nuts, that even further limits your ability to talk.  So if the comments of the gunner are particularly unneeded, you'll get pissed off.


In terms of the gunner who does not talk in class yet is highly competitive, I imagine this might be disliked even more.  Collegiality is a public good.  The more everyone contributes to this good, the more it exists.  Most people prefer collegiality.  However, hyper competitive students reduce the overall level of collegiality.  It brings out competitiveness in other students who otherwise would have played nice. 

Everything written above is correct. Let me add the following (in a Jeff Foxworthy fashion):

You just might be a gunner if:
1. Your law school nick name is "helium hands".
2. After your answer, the next student answers a question by saying, "And then, bingo, the court found personal jurisdiction."
3. As you clear your throat to begin answering a question, you can actually hear the sounds of eyes rolling.
4. The professor always scans the room for at least five seconds when you raise your hand, and then sighs before saying your name.
5. You continually marvel that in a lecture class of eighty people, only you are insightful enough to know the answer each time.
6. You begin to seriously wonder how the other students in the class would ever pass the exam without the knowledge elicited by your penetrating questions, and, moreover, how the professor could possibly have taught this course without considering those issues.
7. "[Your name] is a tool" is the most popular facebook group in your 1L class.


I love #2. Did you write this?
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

dashrashi

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2009, 02:56:29 PM »
Basically, the problem that I'm facing, though, is this....Generally speaking, in undergrad, I've tended to ask a lot of questions, and I feel that it's really helped my understanding of things...Basically, asking questions is the way that I learn.  I try to keep it relevant, and try to keep it to a minimum...But there are a lot of times where the professor makes a logical leap that doesn't quite make sense to me, and I get the feeling that a lot of other students don't understand it either.  My concern is that I'll be faced with a choice - either go without understanding the material and get a bad grade or be seen as a gunner and completely alienate my peers.  Any thoughts?

If it's a few quick questions, I think you're probably game to ask without fear..

Another option might be to write them down and ask peers in a study group.  They might have picked up on something you didn't, and that way your reputation is that of a team player.  If everyone is confused in your study group, it's probably a question that you could ask your professor in or out of class.

No no no no no. You do not get a "few" "quick" questions during class. And asking your study group probably isn't that helpful (though it might be).

Questions are for office hours. If you MUST raise your hand, you get one shot. No follow-up questions. This is exactly and precisely what you use office hours for.
This sig kills fascists.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=dashrashi

Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

CTL

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2009, 02:58:36 PM »
Basically, the problem that I'm facing, though, is this....Generally speaking, in undergrad, I've tended to ask a lot of questions, and I feel that it's really helped my understanding of things...Basically, asking questions is the way that I learn.  I try to keep it relevant, and try to keep it to a minimum...But there are a lot of times where the professor makes a logical leap that doesn't quite make sense to me, and I get the feeling that a lot of other students don't understand it either.  My concern is that I'll be faced with a choice - either go without understanding the material and get a bad grade or be seen as a gunner and completely alienate my peers.  Any thoughts?

If it's a few quick questions, I think you're probably game to ask without fear..

Another option might be to write them down and ask peers in a study group.  They might have picked up on something you didn't, and that way your reputation is that of a team player.  If everyone is confused in your study group, it's probably a question that you could ask your professor in or out of class.

No no no no no. You do not get a "few" "quick" questions during class. And asking your study group probably isn't that helpful (though it might be).

Questions are for office hours. If you MUST raise your hand, you get one shot. No follow-up questions. This is exactly and precisely what you use office hours for.

Opinion or fact?
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Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Why does everyone hate a gunner?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2009, 03:07:26 PM »
Basically, the problem that I'm facing, though, is this....Generally speaking, in undergrad, I've tended to ask a lot of questions, and I feel that it's really helped my understanding of things...Basically, asking questions is the way that I learn.  I try to keep it relevant, and try to keep it to a minimum...But there are a lot of times where the professor makes a logical leap that doesn't quite make sense to me, and I get the feeling that a lot of other students don't understand it either.  My concern is that I'll be faced with a choice - either go without understanding the material and get a bad grade or be seen as a gunner and completely alienate my peers.  Any thoughts?

If it's a few quick questions, I think you're probably game to ask without fear..

Another option might be to write them down and ask peers in a study group.  They might have picked up on something you didn't, and that way your reputation is that of a team player.  If everyone is confused in your study group, it's probably a question that you could ask your professor in or out of class.

No no no no no. You do not get a "few" "quick" questions during class. And asking your study group probably isn't that helpful (though it might be).

Questions are for office hours. If you MUST raise your hand, you get one shot. No follow-up questions. This is exactly and precisely what you use office hours for.

Opinion or fact?

A lot closer to fact than to opinion. Asking for clarification of a point that the professor is making, especially if a lot of other people are totally confused too, is generally fine (assuming you've been paying attention and the professor really is being completely unclear). Posing hypos of your own is generally a big fat no. In most of my classes, when someone raises an important or interesting question outside of class, the professor brings it up in the next class or sends everyone an email.

ETA: And as bosco notes below, there are definitely classes in which it's totally appropriate to share your thoughts and opinions. You will be invited to do so, though, if that's the case. I generally agree with bosco's assessment, though.