Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?  (Read 8451 times)

no634

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • No 634
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2009, 03:11:28 PM »
I wouldn't go to either of them if I had to pay full tuition.
Second. But then again I think we are biased towards UMN. Viva la Mondale!

MSP1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2009, 04:24:48 PM »
Quote
lol, no.  Only william mitchell alum would think so.

Hey, I'm just repeating the CW.  Most people I ever spoke to regarding the Twin Cities law schools, including the U of M grads, affirmed it.  The only people that would disagree are probably the St. Thomas folks.


Remarq

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2009, 04:55:41 PM »
I just looked up the Lawyer/Judge assessment score on USNWR rankings:

St. Thomas 2.7
Hamline 2.3
WM 2.1

NMUZ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2009, 05:17:46 PM »
I just looked up the Lawyer/Judge assessment score on USNWR rankings:

St. Thomas 2.7
Hamline 2.3
WM 2.1

Interesting...ALl the talk about the superiority of a T4 school, yet what lawyers and judges actually say echoes usnews

MSP1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2009, 05:23:29 PM »
And how to respond to cold, hard statistics?  Not sure.  I'd simply say that my list was based upon "conventional wisdom" and not what's in USNWR.  Someone (correctly) pointed out earlier that the Twin Cities legal market doesn't exactly follow what's in the rankings. 

I guess it's just odd (not to mention counterintuitive) to see St. Thomas on top--it's pretty much chronologically impossible for any of their graduates to be partners in any firm anywhere, or higher-level government attorneys, so I can't imagine they've been able to make much of an impression.  Maybe those random lawyers and judges doing the assessment were getting it confused with the St. Thomas in Miami.

And again, out of all the lawyers I've spoken with in the Twin Cities (and in Minnesota), I've never heard these two sentences pass any of their lips:

1.  "St. Thomas is definitely a better law school than William Mitchell."
2.  "Hamline is definitely a better law school than William Mitchell."   

Remarq

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2009, 05:31:38 PM »
And how to respond to cold, hard statistics?  Not sure.  I'd simply say that my list was based upon "conventional wisdom" and not what's in USNWR.  Someone (correctly) pointed out earlier that the Twin Cities legal market doesn't exactly follow what's in the rankings. 

I guess it's just odd (not to mention counterintuitive) to see St. Thomas on top--it's pretty much chronologically impossible for any of their graduates to be partners in any firm anywhere, or higher-level government attorneys, so I can't imagine they've been able to make much of an impression.  Maybe those random lawyers and judges doing the assessment were getting it confused with the St. Thomas in Miami.

And again, out of all the lawyers I've spoken with in the Twin Cities (and in Minnesota), I've never heard these two sentences pass any of their lips:

1.  "St. Thomas is definitely a better law school than William Mitchell."
2.  "Hamline is definitely a better law school than William Mitchell."   

That's definitely not it, because I accidentally made that mistake at first and St. Thomas in Florida has a 1.9 L/J score :) Also, if anything the fact that UST got that rating w/o needing a ton of partners touting their alma mater proves that UST is producing superior lawyers, not the other way around.

NMUZ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2009, 05:40:20 PM »
That's definitely not it, because I accidentally made that mistake at first and St. Thomas in Florida has a 1.9 L/J score :) Also, if anything the fact that UST got that rating w/o needing a ton of partners touting their alma mater proves that UST is producing superior lawyers, not the other way around.
[/quote]

This means that WM alumni (since there are so many of them) are saying that St. Thomas is producing better grads than WM.  And not that I really care anymore since I have made up my mind, but these stats also say that WM alumni like Hamline grads more than WM.  It doesn't really help to have such a great alumni base when they aren't loyal.

MSP1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2009, 05:44:01 PM »
Hey, I'll admit it, I set you up on that one pretty well.  You could logically argue that if the USNWR assessments were true, then St. Thomas is producing first, second, and third-year uber-attorneys. 

Nonetheless, here's some food for thought: a state publication, Minnesota Laywer, puts out an annual list of "Up and Coming Attorneys," those people identified as some of the best and brightest in the state that have been admitted to practice less than ten years.  Twenty-five were chosen in 2009, eight of whom went to William Mitchell and one of whom went to Hamline.  Zero were from St. Thomas, although a St. Thomas fellow/adjunct faculty person was selected.

http://minnlawyerblog.com/2009/03/11/minnesota-lawyer-announces-its-2009-up-and-coming-attorneys/

I'd respectfully submit that a Minnesota publication would know more about the quality of Minnesota lawyers than random lawyers and judges from far-flung parts of the country.  Plus, a few posters have already noted just how wacky those USNWR rankings can be... 

MSP1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2009, 05:46:20 PM »
If you've already made up your mind, NMUZ, then I won't try to change it.  Just wanted to get all sides of the story out there.  Good luck to you. 

NMUZ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Hamline or St. Thomas (MN)?
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2009, 10:54:53 PM »
Really all of thie has been help.  I did not apply to William Mitchell because I did not know about it, and it was ranked in the fourth tier.  I am not from the twin cities area, and did not know about the legal community.  I have made my mind on St. Thomas, but it will help me because at least now I know more to expect upon graduation.