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Author Topic: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?  (Read 7148 times)

wisdom2009

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For affirmative action to work in an effective manner and fulfill its goal, it requires applicants to be honest. However, there is always the risk that people will attempt to manipulate the system and benefit from it by lying about their heritage.

How do schools check if applicants are being truthful? Is there any way of ensuring only applicants who are supposed to benefit from affirmative action in fact really do or do people really get away with lying?

SamE397

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 06:18:40 PM »
I believe ethnicity is part of the on file government information that should come up in a background check and if there is something about your ethnicity not accounted for in government records I imagine you'd be required to provide that information. 

LawDog3

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 04:19:11 PM »
If you marked Black/African-American/Hispanic, they play some music and ask you to dance for them when you get to school for orientation week. ;D ;) If you can dance, you're good to go. If you can't, they kick you out of school, post your name and picture on a marquee by the school, send a report to the other law schools, and ban you from all the dance clubs in the city.


Jamie Stringer

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 04:38:39 PM »
If you marked Black/African-American/Hispanic, they play some music and ask you to dance for them when you get to school for orientation week. ;D ;) If you can dance, you're good to go. If you can't, they kick you out of school, post your name and picture on a marquee by the school, send a report to the other law schools, and ban you from all the dance clubs in the city.




Probably your best post to date.
Quote from: Tim Mitchell

F*cking bi+ch drinks a 1 oz bottle of goose and thinks she's French

devildog_jim

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 01:26:50 AM »
Real answer: your race is self-declared.  Other than Native American (which is tribal membership, not race), you are whatever race you claim to be.  Just pick one for all of your documents.  So, as long as they have been claiming it for everything, anyone who checks the box is honest.

The reason:  There is no test for race.

LawDog3

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 01:55:58 AM »
Real answer: your race is self-declared.  Other than Native American (which is tribal membership, not race), you are whatever race you claim to be.  Just pick one for all of your documents.  So, as long as they have been claiming it for everything, anyone who checks the box is honest.

The reason:  There is no test for race.

For the most part, that is true. However, there are four caveats: the 1/16th rule, your employment records, your school records and other government info, like, birth certificate.

What did your parents indicate on your certificate? Now, the absence of a URM indication on the certificate would not, in itself, be incriminating, b/c some people find out about their heritage long after they're born. Many "Whites" are completely unaware that they are Black or Indian...or Mexican. Funny...some of them actually hate ethnic minorities, too. That's a cruel joke God plays on these White people, but that's another topic. lol!

Technically, in order to be considered Black/African-American, non-Hispanic (for example), one would need at least one parent to have been 1/8th Black, thus, one grandparent 1/4, one great-grand parent 1/2 and one great-great grandparent full Black. If a school or the bar wanted to delve into this, it could ask for family records (believe it or not, I have the actual slave records for my family, as do many Blacks). But, as is the case with a birth certificate, the inability to produce a family tree or other record would not necessarily make you a liar.

On the other hand, the school or bar could then ask how you came to know you were "part Black" and interview your other family members. I don't know if they'd go through the trouble of doing it.

More likely than any other available investigation method, they could look at your employment and school records, something the schools and bar might realistically be relied upon to do if they smelled a rat. They could check to see whether you have always indicated your status as a URM. Some state bars will pobably go back through EVERY job you have had and every school you've ever attended, according to what I am learning. If they were to find inconsistencies, they could bust you that way. But, as long as family members vouched for you, I don't think it would do anything but slow down your inevitable bar admission...unless you are just flat-out busted in a lie somehow.

devildog_jim

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 02:37:36 AM »
Many "Whites" are completely unaware that they are Black or Indian...or Mexican. Funny...some of them actually hate ethnic minorities, too. That's a cruel joke God plays on these White people, but that's another topic. lol!

I don't think it's all that cruel.  But it is funny.


Quote
More likely than any other available investigation method, they could look at your employment and school records, something the schools and bar might realistically be relied upon to do if they smelled a rat. They could check to see whether you have always indicated your status as a URM. Some state bars will pobably go back through EVERY job you have had and every school you've ever attended, according to what I am learning. If they were to find inconsistencies, they could bust you that way. But, as long as family members vouched for you, I don't think it would do anything but slow down your inevitable bar admission...unless you are just flat-out busted in a lie somehow.

I think as long as you're consistent you're ok.  It's suddenly deciding that you're a URM that can get you in trouble.  As an aside, I do personally know of at least one person who did exactly that.  Her parents were the neurotic, type-A types that will do their kids homework for them if it means they'll get into Harvard.  BTW, she didn't get in to Harvard.

LawDog3

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 08:58:30 PM »
Many "Whites" are completely unaware that they are Black or Indian...or Mexican. Funny...some of them actually hate ethnic minorities, too. That's a cruel joke God plays on these White people, but that's another topic. lol!

I don't think it's all that cruel.  But it is funny.


Quote
More likely than any other available investigation method, they could look at your employment and school records, something the schools and bar might realistically be relied upon to do if they smelled a rat. They could check to see whether you have always indicated your status as a URM. Some state bars will pobably go back through EVERY job you have had and every school you've ever attended, according to what I am learning. If they were to find inconsistencies, they could bust you that way. But, as long as family members vouched for you, I don't think it would do anything but slow down your inevitable bar admission...unless you are just flat-out busted in a lie somehow.

I think as long as you're consistent you're ok.  It's suddenly deciding that you're a URM that can get you in trouble.  As an aside, I do personally know of at least one person who did exactly that.  Her parents were the neurotic, type-A types that will do their kids homework for them if it means they'll get into Harvard.  BTW, she didn't get in to Harvard.

U have to admit, tho...wouldn't u love to see the look on some dude's face...a guy who's gone around usin' the "N" word like nobody's business...when he found out his great grandfather, who built the family fortune (there are a few of those) was actually Black? That would be priceless. I was shocked when i learned I had Chinese and Indian in my bloodlines, and I like everybody. Just imagine...

Actually Oprah had some ppl on her show like that and it was interesting how they said it changed their outlook. Also, she had Thomas Jefferson's Black descendants on (folklore has it that, besides having had many affairs with female slaves, one of his parents was at least part-Black). 

new2law

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 05:14:43 AM »
This may be true, but if it is kind of hilarious to go on birth certificate alone. I'll give a real life example. My wifes uncle has "white" on his birth certicate. His mom in native american and his dad white. He is darker than his mom, almost looks half black and half indian really (not pointing fingers just stating a point) so if he is forced to apply as white due to the birth certificate and he is dark as coal almost, how is that fare? He has no ambition to go to college, but its an example of a what if type scenario if he did.

As for tests for race as one of other poster mentioned, the native american tribes do have one. Its an actual DNA test that way even if both of your parents were half native, they can find a way to legally rip you off of your share if your DNA comes back as having both white halfs even though your granparents on both sides were native. Messed up but true.



Real answer: your race is self-declared.  Other than Native American (which is tribal membership, not race), you are whatever race you claim to be.  Just pick one for all of your documents.  So, as long as they have been claiming it for everything, anyone who checks the box is honest.

Contract2008

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Re: How do Schools check if students who tick the URM box are honest?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 01:18:15 AM »
Real answer: your race is self-declared.  Other than Native American (which is tribal membership, not race), you are whatever race you claim to be.  Just pick one for all of your documents.  So, as long as they have been claiming it for everything, anyone who checks the box is honest.

The reason:  There is no test for race.

What if some kid who was born in Japan with both parents being Japanese and obviously, he look very East-Asian and with the last name, Yumakuchi, decides to check "Black" on all his documents?