UC Davis v. UC Hastings

[LawDog3]

Right now, neither school is doing so well in this economy with respect to biglaw.

My friend at Hastings knows someone (won't go into much details about the person other than basics) who's in the Top 20% and has Law Review. No job offer this summer.

Furthermore, I also know a few people in the Top 20/25% and Law Review who don't have jobs from Davis. Also, a point on the job stats that Moto state. Some of those 100+ lawyer firms aren't exactly "biglaw." Meaning, they're HUGE, but some of them are firms like Lewis Brisbois or Gordon Rees that don't pay market (though Gordon Rees isn't bad).

Another thing to take into account is the competition levels. It is my subjective belief, I can't be objective since I never attended Hastings, that it is probably easier to get Top 10-15% at Davis than it is at Hastings. Those kids just scare me!

+1. "StanBerkUCLA Syndrome" at Hastings...

StanBerk Syndrome, yes, but not so sure about UCLA Syndrome. i know people who turned down UCLA and USC for Hastings because they wanted to be in northern ca. oh, and you can say that for any school thats not HYS. GW has GULC syndrome, McGeorge has Davis syndrome, USF has Hastings syndrome, Loyola has UCLA syndrome, Fordham has ColumbiaNYU syndrome, BU/BC have Harvard syndrome


to Davis1L, maybe more Davis students want public interest but look at the following:

Davis has about 10% in government, 13% in public interest, and 8% in "business and industry"

we've established in an old thread that "business and industry" can be something good to something as bad as walmart

Hastings has about 11% in government, 6% in public interest, and 6% in "business and industry"


this doesn't explain why hastings has 11% more in 100+ lawyer firms and a higher percentage in court of appeals clerkships

don't get me wrong, I like both schools but hastings has better career prospects and prestige. just look at the lawyer/judge ratings in the USNEWS rankings. hastings is in on par with the T20-25 and davis is nowhere near

That's the thing that kills me. UCH is so good at everything else but providing collegiality. It is on par with t-25 from the standpoint of education and job prospects. If they would play the game better, they'd probably be higher ranked (again). As a matter of fact, the spot WUSTL occupies could be Hastings' when you think about it. The powers at UCH refuse to get rid of the horendous curve and shrink their classes just a wee bit. 

[LawDog3]

Right now, neither school is doing so well in this economy with respect to biglaw.

My friend at Hastings knows someone (won't go into much details about the person other than basics) who's in the Top 20% and has Law Review. No job offer this summer.

Furthermore, I also know a few people in the Top 20/25% and Law Review who don't have jobs from Davis. Also, a point on the job stats that Moto state. Some of those 100+ lawyer firms aren't exactly "biglaw." Meaning, they're HUGE, but some of them are firms like Lewis Brisbois or Gordon Rees that don't pay market (though Gordon Rees isn't bad).

Another thing to take into account is the competition levels. It is my subjective belief, I can't be objective since I never attended Hastings, that it is probably easier to get Top 10-15% at Davis than it is at Hastings. Those kids just scare me!

+1. "StanBerkUCLA Syndrome" at Hastings...

StanBerk Syndrome, yes, but not so sure about UCLA Syndrome. i know people who turned down UCLA and USC for Hastings because they wanted to be in northern ca. oh, and you can say that for any school thats not HYS. GW has GULC syndrome, McGeorge has Davis syndrome, USF has Hastings syndrome, Loyola has UCLA syndrome, Fordham has ColumbiaNYU syndrome, BU/BC have Harvard syndrome


to Davis1L, maybe more Davis students want public interest but look at the following:

Davis has about 10% in government, 13% in public interest, and 8% in "business and industry"

we've established in an old thread that "business and industry" can be something good to something as bad as walmart

Hastings has about 11% in government, 6% in public interest, and 6% in "business and industry"


this doesn't explain why hastings has 11% more in 100+ lawyer firms and a higher percentage in court of appeals clerkships

don't get me wrong, i like both schools but hastings has better career prospects and prestige. just look at the lawyer/judge ratings in the USNEWS rankings. hastings is in on par with the T20-25 and davis is nowhere near

That's the thing that kills me. UCH is so good at everything else but providing collegiality. It is on par with T-25 from the standpoint of education and job prospects. If they would play the game better, they'd probably be higher ranked (again). As a matter of fact, the spot WUSTL occupies could be Hastings' when you think about it. The powers at UCH refuse to get rid of that horrendous curve and shrink their classes just a wee bit. 

[econtutorNV]

OP here, for everybody's information I was WL'd at Hastings today and haven't heard back from Davis yet. So... Providing Davis does accept me AND Notre Dame, GW and GULC don't catch my hail marys it looks like Hastings made the decision easier for me.

[Davis1L]

Too lazy to insert quotes (there are lots), but I just wanted to address a few points.

Hastings does have more prestige than Davis. I will not doubt that one second, especially because I was actually pro-Hastings at one point and almost attended there myself. But one thing to consider is that Hastings has been around almost 100 years longer than Davis. Davis hasn't even been around for half that long, but we don't place THAT much differently than Hastings does.

Realistically, Davis students with the same GPA as students from Hastings will have similar job opportunities and vice versa. I will say this, however. If you REALLY want to work in SF, go to Hastings. No doubt they have much stronger ties to SF than Davis.

Hastings should be a T25 school. Considering that Iowa is a T25 school, a LOT of schools should be T25 >_>;. Hastings got a new dean not too long ago, so they are actually playing the US News game. As for the curve, they've fixed that also. While they're not using a B+ curve like some higher schools, they have shifted to a about a 3.0-3.1 curve, making the curve comparable with schools in their range. http://theshark.typepad.com/weblog/2008/05/new-relaxed-gra.html

Furthermore, I think that Hastings also relaxed their standards for summa cum laude, magna, and regular (but can't cite to this, just remember hearing about).

OP here, for everybody's information I was WL'd at Hastings today and haven't heard back from Davis yet. So... Providing Davis does accept me AND Notre Dame, GW and GULC don't catch my hail marys it looks like Hastings made the decision easier for me.

Make sure to send in your LOCIs. I was waitlisted at both Hastings and Davis (3.52, 163...and I applied at the deadline which was stupid), and when each called me off their waitlist, they both referenced my LOCIs.

[LawDog3]

Hastings should be a T25 school. Considering that Iowa is a T25 school, a LOT of schools should be T25 >_>;. Hastings got a new dean not too long ago, so they are actually playing the US News game. As for the curve, they've fixed that also. While they're not using a B+ curve like some higher schools, they have shifted to a about a 3.0-3.1 curve, making the curve comparable with schools in their range. http://theshark.typepad.com/weblog/2008/05/new-relaxed-gra.html

Furthermore, I think that Hastings also relaxed their standards for summa cum laude, magna, and regular (but can't cite to this, just remember hearing about).

Wow! I did not know that! I was still operating under the old assumptions about Hastings. I'll admit, I hadn't done a lot of research lately, as I had pared down my list of schools. Hastings might have been on my list, had I known this. That's a killer development, but it will take a couple of years for the new culture to kick in. Now you have bitter upper-classmen who won't be as helpful because they envy the new classes. By 2011, things should be really cool around there...no more torn pages out of books!

Feelin' glad for UCH applicants, because, as we have both stated, the school was once #23, and should still be there...or possibly a little higher.   

[motorolalawyer]

Hastings should be a T25 school. Considering that Iowa is a T25 school, a LOT of schools should be T25 >_>;. Hastings got a new dean not too long ago, so they are actually playing the US News game. As for the curve, they've fixed that also. While they're not using a B+ curve like some higher schools, they have shifted to a about a 3.0-3.1 curve, making the curve comparable with schools in their range. http://theshark.typepad.com/weblog/2008/05/new-relaxed-gra.html

Furthermore, I think that Hastings also relaxed their standards for summa cum laude, magna, and regular (but can't cite to this, just remember hearing about).

Wow! I did not know that! I was still operating under the old assumptions about Hastings. I'll admit, I hadn't done a lot of research lately, as I had pared down my list of schools. Hastings might have been on my list, had I known this. That's a killer development, but it will take a couple of years for the new culture to kick in. Now you have bitter upper-classmen who won't be as helpful because they envy the new classes. By 2011, things should be really cool around there...no more torn pages out of books!

Feelin' glad for UCH applicants, because, as we have both stated, the school was once #23, and should stull be there...or possibly a little higher.   

hastings was Top 20 for a number of years

[LawDog3]

All I know is, the selectivity rating is about to rise (as will the GPA's and LSAT's of applicants and accepted students), because I suspect UCH to start getting more applications in short time. And it will surely be alone in that #5 spot in the state. Don't be surprized if UCH is Top-25 or higher by 2011. You know the job prospects will improve, as the economy does.

From what I have read, there are lots of really strong students who chose other schools because of a perceived negative environment at UCH. I was scared to apply there and chose to list Fordham instead. But it does, indeed, look like UCH wants to play the game and become an elite in the rankings.     

[LawDog3]

Distorted quotes

[Davis1L]

Haha. I said it SHOULD be a T25 school, not that it's going to be. My guess (take it for what you will, what the Hell do I really know as a 2L) is that Hastings will top out somewhere around the low 20s. Probably 27-29ish. I think Davis will peak around the 32-34 range like it historically has.

In reality, the difference between the rankings won't account to much. You really should go where you'd be happiest (that is between Davis and Hastings, at least).

As for LawDog...There's huge difference between Hastings and Fordham (I'm talking geographic, not rankings). At that point, it really depends where you want to practice.

[LawDog3]

Haha. I said it SHOULD be a T25 school, not that it's going to be. My guess (take it for what you will, what the Hell do I really know as a 2L) is that Hastings will top out somewhere around the low 20s. Probably 27-29ish. I think Davis will peak around the 32-34 range like it historically has.

In reality, the difference between the rankings won't account to much. You really should go where you'd be happiest (that is between Davis and Hastings, at least).

As for LawDog...There's huge difference between Hastings and Fordham (I'm talking geographic, not rankings). At that point, it really depends where you want to practice.

You're right; Fordham and Hastings ARE different in the obvious ways (geography, stand-alone v. university-campus affiliated, etc), but not in the relative qualities of education. I essentially applied to the (perceivable) top two schools in major markets throughout the country (NY, IL, DC, CA, GA, etc), and I was down to two or three schools; this was not an unusual dilemma. Fordham won out because of NY and the fact that it was part of a university and had better access to BigLaw.

I speculate that Hastings could go higher in the rankings, just based on the fact that they have been there before. I might be very wrong about that, but it's just fun to imagine extreme changes in the rankings.