White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)

[LawDog3]

"But we as blacks and people of color would be appalled if a white law school lamented a significant rise in Black students and proclaimed that something had to be done about it. It may be difficult to accept, but we must live as we ask others to live. HBCU's can serve their mission if we improve the conditions of our homes and schools. Black students must come prepared to compete...and if we are able to compete, we will be rewarded.

HBCU's will continue to serve the Black community. That more white students are being exposed to Black culture and Black students, thus, a richer diversity of experiences, is a GOOD thing. We should welcome them into our schools and not be afraid...as we have long been asking them to do for us. If we are going to progress into a more pluralistic society, we must continue to use our voices, strive for excellence, and lead by example.

LOL! Did I just write that idealistic psycho-babble?      "

LawDog: What is written above is the principle reason behind why the blip on the Uncle Tom radar appeared. The above seemed sort of Uncle Tomesque. Futhermore, I wrote....If you are not an Uncle Tom......the key word is if. Sorry to upset you brotha'.

Byron: You foolish white man. Claiming libel? If you grow up around a group of people, wouldn't those people be considered acquaintances? I guess not. Furthermore I used the term suggessted, I didn't quote you verbatim,you used tangential language, I simply sliced through your attempted charade.
Minorities are more protected than the majority nowadays Yes, you could be right..I mean just ask any grand wizard. Matter of fact, a grand wizard used that exact same line in the film A Time To Kill. Perhaps if you wind up at Howard, or encounter the black people that you claim to have grown up around, perhaps you should express that sentiment, and discover for yourself what water's temperature you find yourself in.
 Mr. Byron, bless your heart... the network that Imus broadcasted on is not responsible for what inexplicable racial slurs come out of his mouth no more than the golf channel where kelly tillman uttered racists remarks about Tiger Woods ("lynch him in the back alley"). Moreover, I suppose there's no bat-eating, satanic rock stars on MTV, or any star by the name of Marilyn Manson who MTV and VH1 choose to air. Once again, Byron, you are not black, you never will be, no matter how many black people you claim to know, you have never been in the trenches with the black community, so when I comes to speaking about the black commmunity and "identifying" you should be quiet.
You simply want to pretend that racism is fiction; I'd consider it a bonus if you didn't think the scurrilous New York Post cartoon's (by Sean Delonas) dipiction of President Obama as a bullet-filled chimpanzee to be racist, and this occured yesterday, don't speak about racism being outdated. The more you speak, the more you reveal that your heart is imbued with racism, no matter how much you try to obfuscate.

There is absolutely nothing UT-ish about

1) playing devil's advocate and seeing multiple sides of an issue (something law students, lawyers and judges should ALWAYS do) and

2) checking OURSELVES on the race issue. Was I wrong to point out that we would get upset if a White person said those things? NO, I wasn't. And I was 100% correct. I would love to hear the Black students on this site react to a White Harvard or Penn Law student who says there are "too many Blacks getting in". First, it would be a gross overstatement of the numbers and a lie; secondly, it would show racism.

If I pointed out that Blacks shouldn't use the N'Word and get mad at Whites for using it - an argument you have heard many prominent Blacks, such as Al Sharpton, make - that wouldn't be "Uncle-Tomesque", either.

I am against hypocrisy, no matter who or where it comes from. And, surely, a person who laments a rise in White HBCU students is a hypocrite.

It is flat-out hypocritical for Blacks to argue that we deserve inclusion at historically "White" universities (particularly the elite ones), and argue FOR Affirmative Action (AA) policies at such schools, then turn around and have the nerve to be concerned that whites attend HBCU's.
 
The entire foundations behind AA are "diversity of ideas", "inclusion", "multiculturalism", "enfranchisement" and other notable buzz words.

Well, with all due respect, when a Black student laments the rise in White students at HBCU's, which, in an ideal world, would not exist in the first place, he/she undermines our argument that AA is NOT about getting a free pass. If I'm White and listening to a Black student tell people Blacks have something to fear in this so-called rise in attendance, I then say to myself, "See, Blacks don't even believe in the multiculturism myth...so why should we?"

We should not be concerned about Whites attending HBCU's, when the educational experience they receive is going to be unlike any they have ever had, and make for a better understanding of Black history, culture, and religion.

Furthermore, if we lend credence to the argument that Whites should not be allowed to attend HBCU's, we should also lend credence to the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to take Afro-American Studies courses at White universities, or attend predominantly Black churches...or patronize Black barbershops and restaurants. In order to get into their world, they have to be included in ours, otherwise, we are no better than White racists are.

I mean, what are we saying here? If they are willing to attend our schools and take their education back to their communities, isn't that what we want? Wouldn't we rather have White HBCU graduates sitting across the hiring desk from us?

Think about it.

I am no Uncle Tom and I do not sound like one; like our new President, I am a pragmatist.     

[AgreeToDisagree]

I suppose it's safe to conclude that you and I don't agree on this particular subject. Furthermore, I'm not against white people attending HBCU's per se. I'm in opposition to some of their motives. Motives of individuals such as Taft52.

LawDog, you want to pretend to yourself that blacks and whites started out on equal footing. White people in America have been the oppressors. No white people were ever made to feel inferior because the color of their white skin (that no human has control of), no white people were expected, by law, to sit at the backs of buses, no white people were precluded, by law, from being part of the electorate, no white people were forced to attend separate but unequal schools, so don't talk about what a white Harvard or Penn law student would say if too many blacks were getting in, because considering America's history, a white student wouldn't be qualified to express that sentiment. No white people were promised fourty acres and a mule, you know why LawDog? Because they owned all of the land that is referred to as the U.S.A. and it was an exclusive fraternity.
Moreover, I would want the individual (who doesn't necessarily have to be white) across the hiring desk, to hire me (or anyone else) because of qualifications and merit, not because he/she is some HBCU alumnus. That's what I want LawDog, and frankly, thats what we want, and precisely what our forebears who sacrificed their lives envisaged.
Furthermore, the pragmatist President whom you choose to liken yourself to has explained in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he fully understands and is fully conscious of racism, how it hasn't evaporated. The President describes (in the race chapter) how white privilege does exist, and how a white couple threw their car keys at him simply because he was a black man standing outside of an upscale restaurant. You on the other hand, would make an excuse for the white couple and delude yourself into thinking racism was in no way connected, and the key tossing was simply a misunderstanding.
You and this equal footing rhetoric, read this joke by Bill Cosby:

"Two white men were riding their horses in the desert wielding swords.
They were taking turns trying to slice the head of a black man, who was burried neck deep.
As one of the white horsemen tried to slice the black man, the black man somehow, managed to move his head.
Frustrated, exasperated, the white men on their horses shout, 'fight fair n*gger!!!'"

[byron2008]

Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

Agree: You completely missed my point on the Imus issue, which was that you complain when a racist comment by a washed up old fart that nobody listens to is headline news yet don't complain about how the same corporation is broadcasting videos that make black people look far worse than anything Imus or any other racist could say about them. What does Marilyn Manson have to do with anything? You are projecting your own racist views on me because you don't want to admit your own racism. You just proved your bigotry when you called me a foolish white man. Yet, although I never would do so, if I replied by calling you a "foolish black man" I could take a wild guess as to how that would turn out. You are clearly not in favor of an end to racism, you just advocate the kind of discrimination (affirmative action) that benefits your race. White racism and prejudice exists, I know that from living in the South, but it also works the other way around. If you look at the FBI's statistics on hate crimes, for example, you will see that a white person is 2.5 more times to be murdered by a black person than vice versa. It's also interesting to note that there were 2 million reported incidents of black on white general crime (which is not considered hate crime) and 1700 incidents of white on black "hate crime" in 2002. I'm sure you have an explanation regarding that which will blame whitey too. Also, what's your hangup with the KKK? You would think from all of your invocations of the group that we are living in 1870. Do some research, the FBI thoroughly infiltrated and subverted the KKK decades ago through their COINTELPRO projects (much as they did with racist black groups like the Black Panthers).

[Miss P]

Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml

Also, SPLC?  Talk about your irrelevant historical artifacts.  Not that it bolsters your claim about minority institutions since Morris Dees and Joe Levin are as white as they come . . .

I don't really care about whether white people go to HBCUs as long as they don't dilute the schools' missions, but I don't think someone with your disrespect toward civil rights institutions and history would feel very comfortable at Howard. 

[LawDog3]

I suppose it's safe to conclude that you and I don't agree on this particular subject. Furthermore, I'm not against white people attending HBCU's per se. I'm in opposition to some of their motives. Motives of individuals such as Taft52.

LawDog, you want to pretend to yourself that blacks and whites started out on equal footing. White people in America have been the oppressors. No white people were ever made to feel inferior because the color of their white skin (that no human has control of), no white people were expected, by law, to sit at the backs of buses, no white people were precluded, by law, from being part of the electorate, no white people were forced to attend separate but unequal schools, so don't talk about what a white Harvard or Penn law student would say if too many blacks were getting in, because considering America's history, a white student wouldn't be qualified to express that sentiment. No white people were promised fourty acres and a mule, you know why LawDog? Because they owned all of the land that is referred to as the U.S.A. and it was an exclusive fraternity.
Moreover, I would want the individual (who doesn't necessarily have to be white) across the hiring desk, to hire me (or anyone else) because of qualifications and merit, not because he/she is some HBCU alumnus. That's what I want LawDog, and frankly, thats what we want, and precisely what our forebears who sacrificed their lives envisaged.
Furthermore, the pragmatist President whom you choose to liken yourself to has explained in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he fully understands and is fully conscious of racism, how it hasn't evaporated. The President describes (in the race chapter) how white privilege does exist, and how a white couple threw their car keys at him simply because he was a black man standing outside of an upscale restaurant. You on the other hand, would make an excuse for the white couple and delude yourself into thinking racism was in no way connected, and the key tossing was simply a misunderstanding.
You and this equal footing rhetoric, read this joke by Bill Cosby:

"Two white men were riding their horses in the desert wielding swords.
They were taking turns trying to slice the head of a black man, who was burried neck deep.
As one of the white horsemen tried to slice the black man, the black man somehow, managed to move his head.
Frustrated, exasperated, the white men on their horses shout, 'fight fair n*gger!!!'"

OK...I CALL YOUR BLUFF. YOU SHOW ME WHAT, IN ANY OF MY POSTS, INDICATES MY BELIEF THAT BLACKS AND WHITES HAVE EVER...AND I MEAN EVER...BEEN ON EQUAL FOOTING. I know better and nothing I write would ever indicate that.

Calling one of my own on being a hypocrite does not make me an Uncle Tom, and I believe Barack would say the same thing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Hypocrisy is WRONG. And having a double-standard for HBCU's and White colleges is wrong. I am not saying that HBCU's should not continuew their mission of providing education for Black students and furthering the socioeconomic concerns of the Black communmity. I am not saing that HBCU's should not work to maintain our culture, because I believe the opposite: they should.

But think about the implications of that remark that poster made: "We need to be careful; HBCU's are admitting too many Whites." Do you hear that?

Man..you are preaching to the choir. I understand these issues. I also understand the danger in assuming that white schools don't discriminate, because they do. I know ALL of this...

I am ridin witcha, but you are clearly not comprehending what I am writing; you aren't pickin' up what I am puttin' down!

What I have said is, IMHO irrefutable. Think about the hypocrisy in the remarks...that's all I am saying.

I AM DOWN!!!!!! You don't have to preach these things to ME. 

I fight these White students on LSD and TLS every day...and I am usually ALONE when I do it...they gang up on me eight at a time and everything. Look at my other posts; until you do that, you are not allowed to use my name or address me anymore, because you would not say the things you are saying if you had done your research on me. 

It's kind of funny. I was known as kind of a Malcolm-X type among the White students at my university. They thought I was somewhat militant, and many were afraid to engage me in debates, b/c they KNEW I was going to roast them.

Peace.

[dashrashi]

Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml

Also, SPLC?  Talk about your irrelevant historical artifacts.  Not that it bolsters your claim about minority institutions since Morris Dees and Joe Levin are as white as they come . . .

I don't really care about whether white people go to HBCUs as long as they don't dilute the schools' missions, but I don't think someone with your disrespect toward civil rights institutions and history would feel very comfortable at Howard. 

I fully snorted in the library. Second time in 15 minutes (first time was over that whole Acela Pillsbury thing on ATL).

[dashrashi]

Also, lawdog, do you see how exasperated you feel? That's what you inspire in others.

[LawDog3]

Also, lawdog, do you see how exasperated you feel? That's what you inspire in others.

I inspire exasperation in idiots. The guy I'm engaging with right now is exasperated...not me. He looks rather stupid right now. Just like the OTHERS you speak of. The fact is, I am intellectually superior to many...lucky for you mere mortals, I use my powers for good. 

[dashrashi]

No, you seem pretty exasperated. The all caps, the bolding, the "I AM DOWN" followed by lord knows how many exclamation points (seven?), "For the absolute last time," etc.

Don't be disingenuous.

[Jamie Stringer]

Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

How dare the uppity negro female talk back, right?  As someone who would technically be considered mulatto per the strict definition, I am letting you know it's not an acceptable form of address.  If you choose to use it (and frankly, I don't buy your whole taunting PC bull), that's your prerogative, but you got called on using an offensive term, so at least own that *&^%.  For the record, I'm not of Asian ancestry, but I find it similarly offensive when people use the term "Oriental."  Just because it was socially acceptable at one point, it doesn't mean it continues to be so.

Also no, I don't see your point.  Social clubs != protection, so that whole diatribe about a white students affinity group is pointless.  What's more, there are plenty of affinity groups for people of various nationalities or ethnic backgrounds (Irish American groups, Italian American groups, etc).  No furor over those that I've seen.

....

Miss P, I fully LOL'd at your link