146 lsat 3.0 gpa

[USAFVETERAN]

I am just curious if any of you are in the same boat as I am...wondering who the hell would let you in the doors in '09.  I will start off by saying that I welcome the added "minority" clause in the admissions process.  I am a disabled vet and business owner.  I have also started a non-profit orginazation.  I hope this will seperate me from the rest, assuming my LSAT score does not subject my application to the immediate "next" list.  But seriously, has anyone ever heard of anyone being rejected from Texas Southern or Texas Weselyan before?  These may be my last hope.  For those in my shoes, where are you applying?

[Matthies]

Try applying to part time programs (for now at least) your LSAT score dos not count against the school for rnaking purposes if you go part-time, but your AA status and disabilty status still count. Also look into the CLEO program. Of course there is always retaking. Good luck, and thank you for your service to our country.

[USAFVETERAN]

Yes my undergrad gpa is 4.0 but I attended a couple of communities along the way.  I predicted a 3.0 after everything is said and done.  However, I found a site that computes the numbers and I came up with a 3.2 which is more accurate than the latter.  Still 3.2 is not that great.

[USAFVETERAN]

You are right.  I do need to get out of the 140's.  But to realistic I am who I am.  I may be a 140's guy.  This is not resigning to anything.  This can change if I put the right amount of time in.  The right amount of time could possibly for one person be two months whereas for me several months.  At this point I do not have several months.  As for my schooling I hate to admit but I had problems with college algebra.  That is where my F came from.  Along the way at the CC when I was like 18 I aquired one D and two C's.  Since then, and we are talking over a decade later, I have maintained a 4.0, which calculates to a 3.21.  Yes they were all A's.  You get what you put in.  Just like the LSAT.  I am sure I can get out of the 140's I do not have that time to study right now.  If you have read my latest thread it is strictly for 145's-149's.  There are 30% of test taker who end up confusioned and misinformed about what they can do.  Most of the comments people make to a 145er is, " Are you sure law school is what you want to do?".  Something to that effect.  However, the difference between a 145er and a 150er is no more than 10 questions.  Yet a 150er never gets questioned as to his desire to go to law school.  Stone walls do not make a prison no more than LSAT scores a Lawyer.

[Jamie Stringer]

You are right.  I do need to get out of the 140's.  But to realistic I am who I am.  I may be a 140's guy.  This is not resigning to anything.  This can change if I put the right amount of time in.  The right amount of time could possibly for one person be two months whereas for me several months.  At this point I do not have several months.  As for my schooling I hate to admit but I had problems with college algebra.  That is where my F came from.  Along the way at the CC when I was like 18 I aquired one D and two C's.  Since then, and we are talking over a decade later, I have maintained a 4.0, which calculates to a 3.21.  Yes they were all A's.  You get what you put in.  Just like the LSAT.  I am sure I can get out of the 140's I do not have that time to study right now.  If you have read my latest thread it is strictly for 145's-149's.  There are 30% of test taker who end up confusioned and misinformed about what they can do.  Most of the comments people make to a 145er is, " Are you sure law school is what you want to do?".  Something to that effect.  However, the difference between a 145er and a 150er is no more than 10 questions.  Yet a 150er never gets questioned as to his desire to go to law school.  Stone walls do not make a prison no more than LSAT scores a Lawyer.

1. Even if the difference is no more than 10 questions, that's still roughly 10% of the test, which is a large portion.

2. Your desire may be questioned when you make conflicting statements like the bolded.  When you realize that you get what you put into the LSAT, and then say "I do not have that time to study right now," your commitment will be questioned.  In addition, it is very, extremely difficult to get a job after graduation coming from a school where you'd be admissasble with an LSAT in the low-mid 140s.  So it is just that you want to go to law school or that you want to be a lawyer?  If you put the time into studying, you could significantly improve your chances of obtaining a job after graduation that will allow you to pay your law school debt. 

3. You can always make time in your life to study for the LSAT if it's something you want.  Law schools aren't disappearing.  Even if it takes a year to accumulate enough study time prior to taking the test, don't you think that's a worthwhile investment in your future?

[USAFVETERAN]

I see how you may think that my statement is conflicting.  You must understand that some people, 30% approximately, may have to work with the numbers they have.  There are several factors that dictate whether a person has "enough" time to study.  There are also people who do take a year to study and still are roughly in the same position.  Scoring a low LSAT score is not sufficient grounds to start questioning a person’s desire to go to law school and become a lawyer.  Also statistically it is extremely hard for any law grad to find work, unless you graduated top 10 from top ranked schools.  So even if a person increases his or her score and got into a prestigious school, there is no guarantee that he or she will land a job paying enough to live comfortably and still pay college loans.  If that same person took his or her low score and got accepted to a law school, albeit lower tier, the opportunity is still there for several things. That person can transfer up.  Statically this is low also.  However, it is possible.  Also that same person may be able to gravitate to the top of the class whereas at a higher ranked school he or she may be at the bottom.  The bottom job prospects are no greater than a lower tier student whom was at the top of his or her class.  Everyone enters law school with the goal of working hard.  Nonetheless people will fail out at a 1 tier school just as well as they will a 4 tier school.  As far as jobs are concerned everyone always focuses on their FIRTST job out of law school.  How many people do you know that are still working at their FIRST job?  Your first job my last only one year.  Your second job may be the 6 figure job.  No one wants to talk about that.  All I am saying is for people who have scored low it is not the end of the world and there are still plenty of options.  As I said a low LSAT score is no reason for a person’s desire to be a lawyer stand in question.  If that is the case then I must question all those who did not score a 180.  Stone walls do not make a prison no more than LSAT scores a Lawyer.

[Jamie Stringer]

I see how you may think that my statement is conflicting.  You must understand that some people, 30% approximately, may have to work with the numbers they have. 

Yes, and for some of those people, they will need to give up on the dream of being a lawyer.  Either that, or realize that if you do go to law school with your current LSAT, it will be extremely difficult for you to find employment sufficient to pay any debt and you're not likely to get significant (if any) scholarship dollars from any school.

There are several factors that dictate whether a person has "enough" time to study. 

Yes, but so what?  I'm married, work full time, and still managed to study for the test from late November of last year through June this year, then from mid-July through the October test (retake).  So yeah, I understand that there are a variety of things in life that pull at your time, but law school and the law profession are a time drain as well.  If this is something important, you will find some time to spend on studying.

Scoring a low LSAT score is not sufficient grounds to start questioning a person’s desire to go to law school and become a lawyer. 

This has already been addressed and is simply a strawman.

Also statistically it is extremely hard for any law grad to find work, unless you graduated top 10 from top ranked schools.

Patently false.


The rest of your post is no more than an attempt to justify why you think you shouldn't study harder and retake the LSAT, as well as trying to make yourself feel better that the job opportunities are the same for someone who graduates at the top of their class from a T4 vs. someone at the bottom of their class from a top school.  Also, oftentimes, there are job tracks that are simply unavailable to people if they don't have the right pedigree in terms of schools or first jobs, so it's not necessarily true that law school only affects your first job.

For people who have low scores, it's not the end of the world, but it does severely limit your options, particularly when the low score is combined with a lower GPA.

In any event, your OP talked about your soft factors which are good, but the numbers ultimately get you through the door.  That's the sad reality of law school admissions.  Good luck.

[USAFVETERAN]

To Britney and Stole your nose-
It seems to me that the more important thing is money and tuition.  If there were less people going for money then the career market would not be so saturated.  I would like to think that the motivation behind you is to practice law for the love of it or study law to become a more enlightened person; anything but for the money.  By a rule of thumb it is a bad idea to do most things for the sake of money.  However, I do understand that most people will incur a debt.  I have a solution.  Apparently daddy cannot pay for it so let your uncle; Uncle Sam that is.  For just a few years of your life dedicated, not for money but for the sake of democracy and freedom, you (speaking in general not directly) too can have a full ride.  Now this will be the true test of your desire to attend law school. Problem solved.

[Jamie Stringer]

If scholarship money isn't important, then it goes back to job prospects.  My assumption is that you want to study law so you can practice law.  If that's a misguided assumption, then both SYN and I have wasted a goodly amount of time here.  But if it's true, the point is that the type of school you select can have a far-reaching impact on your employability, even long after graduation.  Select a school with that in mind.  If you're able to retake the LSAT and do markedly better, it is in your best interest to do so. 

Since you clearly know better, I'll leave you to this MME.

[Stole Your Nose!]

I would like to think that the motivation behind you is to practice law for the love of it or study law to become a more enlightened person; anything but for the money.

This is bologna. It is a job. And if I am doing the same job as someone else, I'd rather make $200k to provide for my family than $40k.  The things that I love in life are travel, art, retiring, paying my bills, not stressing about finances, wine, good food, and music.  If I can have all of those things by getting up every morning and being a lawyer, then that's as good a reason as any to do the job.

And thanks for the Uncle Sam suggestion, but I would prefer to keep the "few years of my life" (or, um, my life, since apparently we are fighting with other countries and various warlords), and I do not want to get low pay for high risk soldiering.  I am glad that you did, and thanks for your service.  I also scored well enough to get into a school where I can make $75k in the summer internships alone, so I don't particularly need that advice.

You also left out the whole part where you in any way acknowledge that the entirety of your previous post was unfounded. The market is not saturated by smart people at T14 law schools who want money; it is saturated by people who don't make the grades in the fourth tier law schools.