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Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.

nealric

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 12:36:20 PM »
Quote
Umm, refer him to you and get a fee split?

Sweet, I'm going to hold you to that. Let your client know that my billing rate is $1200/hr and my response will take a minimum of 100 billable hours.

Matthies

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2008, 12:39:55 PM »
Umm I think thatís the point the rest of us are seeing that youíre not. We are making fun of some of the truly stupid things that they post on JD Underground but taking it to the extreme. Its satire. You obviously keyed into only one comment, for some reason you took particular offense to that.

to be fair, you do pretty consistently bash the top schools.  remember when you told cady that her texts were all coloring books?

Actually I donít remember that, but I could see myself saying that. And I am pretty much the sole dissenter and voice for the common man on this board. You people (god I love that term) out number me and someone must counter some run amuck egos Ė and I do that through satire. I certainly donít see myself as ďbashingĒ the T14 to any degree that the non t14 get bashed one here. I certainly donít involve myself in the personal attacks or flagrant disrespect that some of the people on here do, you have never nor will you ever see me denigrate someoneís self worth based on the school they go to, t14 or Cooley. I will poke fun at it, I will poke fun at what I think is some people taking themselves or thier schools a bit too seriously. I donít take it personally when every other thread bash people for going to school X, but if I reverse that, then some people on here get all bent out of shape about really quickly. Often the same people who enjoy or donít protest at other schools being the subject of jokes. There is a double standard and I think even you can see that.

Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2008, 12:40:01 PM »
but you do have to admit that jaycls comes off as kind of a humorless feminine hygiene product.  he does appear to try to give good advice in some of the other threads he has posted in, but should probably stay away from snarky off-topics though.

um, this is not off-topic.  or did you mean off-topic posters?

i see him as just a little offended that the response to "T14 or die" is "T14 students are dumb".  perfectly valid.

also, this thread just got me in trouble.  great.  >:(

Yeah that's a pretty accurate portrayal of the situation.  

Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2008, 12:46:59 PM »
Actually I donít remember that, but I could see myself saying that. And I am pretty much the sole dissenter and voice for the common man on this board. You people (god I love that term) out number me and someone must counter some run amuck egos Ė and I do that through satire. I certainly donít see myself as ďbashingĒ the T14 to any degree that the non t14 get bashed one here. I certainly donít involve myself in the personal attacks or flagrant disrespect that some of the people on here do, you have never nor will you ever see me denigrate someoneís self worth based on the school they go to, t14 or Cooley. I will poke fun at it, I will poke fun at what I think is some people taking themselves or thier schools a bit too seriously. I donít take it personally when every other thread bash people for going to school X, but if I reverse that, then some people on here get all bent out of shape about really quickly. Often the same people who enjoy or donít protest at other schools being the subject of jokes. There is a double standard and I think even you can see that.

one man's satire is another man's insult.

if someone says people who don't go to T14* schools suck as a joke and someone who doesn't go to a T14* school gets offended, that seems about right.

if someone says people who go to T14* schools suck as a joke and someone who goes to a T14* school gets offended, that also seems about right.

so what's the problem?

*T14 is a fake category as far as i'm concerned.

Agreed re: T14. Actually as relates to the original topic of the thread -- I think it is sad that there are so many for-profit Tier 4 law schools that take advantage of people's hopes and dreams. You don't see Medical Schools like that in the United States.  If you want to go to a Tier 4 school then more power to you. You'll probably still pass the bar and make a fine lawyer, but in this economy you should know what you are getting yourself into before you take on all that debt. 

Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2008, 12:50:32 PM »

Agreed re: T14. Actually as relates to the original topic of the thread -- I think it is sad that there are so many for-profit Tier 4 law schools that take advantage of people's hopes and dreams. You don't see Medical Schools like that in the United States.  If you want to go to a Tier 4 school then more power to you. You'll probably still pass the bar and make a fine lawyer, but in this economy IN THIS ECONOMY (!!!!!!) you should know what you are getting yourself into before you take on all that debt. 


Fixed :)

Matthies

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2008, 01:03:47 PM »
but you do have to admit that jaycls comes off as kind of a humorless feminine hygiene product.  he does appear to try to give good advice in some of the other threads he has posted in, but should probably stay away from snarky off-topics though.

um, this is not off-topic.  or did you mean off-topic posters?

i see him as just a little offended that the response to "T14 or die" is "T14 students are dumb".  perfectly valid.

Why? Why is one more accpeted than the other? Is that not a double standard? Or is it ok to dish out but not take? Seriously, explain this to me because Iím not getting it. Itís acceptable and done on a daily basis to say t14 or die, to trash any school lower ranked than the one you happen to attend and no one, but me and few others, step in to say much is defense, but its not OK to say in response t14 are dumb in a handful of posts as thatís unacceptable because someone might get their feelings hurt?

Unless you are telling me that you donít personally like it because it offends you, that I am fine with. But you seem to me, at least as I am understanding it, to be saying the only feelings that matter are those of the T14 kids Ėeverything else is cool because thatís the status quo. I guess I just canít think of a time you have stepped in to a conversation trashing lower ranked schools, but you seem to get riled up when I do it to the T14. Again, if this is because it offends you personally that is a completely reasonable response, and one I can accept, but that does not seem to be the argument your making. I canít help but see a double standard here, maybe Iím too dumb to understand it and hence why I got to a T2 school (see I can make fun  of myself).   


Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2008, 01:11:35 PM »
but you do have to admit that jaycls comes off as kind of a humorless feminine hygiene product.  he does appear to try to give good advice in some of the other threads he has posted in, but should probably stay away from snarky off-topics though.

um, this is not off-topic.  or did you mean off-topic posters?

i see him as just a little offended that the response to "T14 or die" is "T14 students are dumb".  perfectly valid.

Why? Why is one more accpeted than the other? Is that not a double standard? Or is it ok to dish out but not take? Seriously, explain this to me because Iím not getting it. Itís acceptable and done on a daily basis to say t14 or die, to trash any school lower ranked than the one you happen to attend and no one, but me and few others, step in to say much is defense, but its not OK to say in response t14 are dumb in a handful of posts as thatís unacceptable because someone might get their feelings hurt?

Unless you are telling me that you donít personally like it because it offends you, that I am fine with. But you seem to me, at least as I am understanding it, to be saying the only feelings that matter are those of the T14 kids Ėeverything else is cool because thatís the status quo. I guess I just canít think of a time you have stepped in to a conversation trashing lower ranked schools, but you seem to get riled up when I do it to the T14. Again, if this is because it offends you personally that is a completely reasonable response, and one I can accept, but that does not seem to be the argument your making. I canít help but see a double standard here, maybe Iím too dumb to understand it and hence why I got to a T2 school (see I can make fun  of myself).   



Actually, except in response to your silly stereotyping, I've never bashed a non-T14 school. Law schools are not academic prizes the way some people would like to characterize them. They are professional schools. They are a means to an end. If you can reasonably reach your goals from a T2 school then great. Why should you pay for/worry about going to a T14 school. I still think you should be reasonably informed as to what you'll statistically have a shot of being able to do with a degree from x school. For example: If your whole life you have been thinking of being a Supreme Court clerk then I'd suggest you try to shoot for a T14 school to increase your odds. If you want to go into private practice at your family firm, that's a great goal too...you probably won't need Harvard Law to do that. I just think people should be realistically informed.

Matthies

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2008, 01:21:03 PM »
Why? Why is one more accpeted than the other? Is that not a double standard? Or is it ok to dish out but not take? Seriously, explain this to me because Iím not getting it. Itís acceptable and done on a daily basis to say t14 or die, to trash any school lower ranked than the one you happen to attend and no one, but me and few others, step in to say much is defense, but its not OK to say in response t14 are dumb in a handful of posts as thatís unacceptable because someone might get their feelings hurt?

Unless you are telling me that you donít personally like it because it offends you, that I am fine with. But you seem to me, at least as I am understanding it, to be saying the only feelings that matter are those of the T14 kids Ėeverything else is cool because thatís the status quo. I guess I just canít think of a time you have stepped in to a conversation trashing lower ranked schools, but you seem to get riled up when I do it to the T14. Again, if this is because it offends you personally that is a completely reasonable response, and one I can accept, but that does not seem to be the argument your making. I canít help but see a double standard here, maybe Iím too dumb to understand it and hence why I got to a T2 school (see I can make fun  of myself).   

um, where did i say that one is more okay than the other?  i said that when somebody's trashing you, it's valid to feel offended regardless.

here is what i said:

if someone says people who don't go to T14* schools suck as a joke and someone who doesn't go to a T14* school gets offended, that seems about right.

if someone says people who go to T14* schools suck as a joke and someone who goes to a T14* school gets offended, that also seems about right.

Your silence on one and vocal opposition to another. Who else have you called out? When do you call out?

Matthies

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2008, 01:53:02 PM »
but you do have to admit that jaycls comes off as kind of a humorless feminine hygiene product.  he does appear to try to give good advice in some of the other threads he has posted in, but should probably stay away from snarky off-topics though.

um, this is not off-topic.  or did you mean off-topic posters?

i see him as just a little offended that the response to "T14 or die" is "T14 students are dumb".  perfectly valid.

Why? Why is one more accpeted than the other? Is that not a double standard? Or is it ok to dish out but not take? Seriously, explain this to me because Iím not getting it. Itís acceptable and done on a daily basis to say t14 or die, to trash any school lower ranked than the one you happen to attend and no one, but me and few others, step in to say much is defense, but its not OK to say in response t14 are dumb in a handful of posts as thatís unacceptable because someone might get their feelings hurt?

Unless you are telling me that you donít personally like it because it offends you, that I am fine with. But you seem to me, at least as I am understanding it, to be saying the only feelings that matter are those of the T14 kids Ėeverything else is cool because thatís the status quo. I guess I just canít think of a time you have stepped in to a conversation trashing lower ranked schools, but you seem to get riled up when I do it to the T14. Again, if this is because it offends you personally that is a completely reasonable response, and one I can accept, but that does not seem to be the argument your making. I canít help but see a double standard here, maybe Iím too dumb to understand it and hence why I got to a T2 school (see I can make fun  of myself).   



Actually, except in response to your silly stereotyping, I've never bashed a non-T14 school. Law schools are not academic prizes the way some people would like to characterize them. They are professional schools. They are a means to an end. If you can reasonably reach your goals from a T2 school then great. Why should you pay for/worry about going to a T14 school. I still think you should be reasonably informed as to what you'll statistically have a shot of being able to do with a degree from x school. For example: If your whole life you have been thinking of being a Supreme Court clerk then I'd suggest you try to shoot for a T14 school to increase your odds. If you want to go into private practice at your family firm, that's a great goal too...you probably won't need Harvard Law to do that. I just think people should be realistically informed.

I actually donít disagree with this at all. I think your completely correct. I do however differ with you on if should T4 schools exists, I think they should, so long as the students attending them understand what they are getting into. I also see this as the responsibility of the individual, rather than the schools some how tricking them into thinking they have a shot at something they donít. I tend to think its better for legal representation when people have a choice among lawyers, so Iím not support of closing any schools down.

Where I do disagree with you is that I think people, primarily those at T14s on this board because they happen to be over represented (compared to the number on non t14 law students) talk about the ramifications of going to a lower ranked school like they know what those are. Iím not a T14 student, you wonít see me giving advice on where to apply to get that big law job in NYC. I would have no idea what Iím talking about. But there are many on this board who will tell you what MY job prospects are, from MY school, in MY market who have never even been here. There are a few of us who regularly post from lower ranked schools on here, and universally I think if you took a poll they would all say how people describe it is not how it really is.

I know my market. I know what jobs Iíve had, what jobs Iíve been offered and where many of my classmates are working. Several in big law, several in federal clerkships, in fact I donít know anyone of my friends or classmates who donít have jobs. But you would not know that from reading the posts here by people who donít go to my school or live in my market but will tell you what my job prospects are like they are experts.
Thatís the big problem I have with LSD. There is some great info out there, and some experts in their schools and markets, and people should listen to them. But there are others who think just because thatís the way it works around them it works like that everywhere. Or think that just because thatís what its like at their school its like that everywhere. Look at JD Underground, look at TLS, look who the people are and where they go to school, its more T14 than not, and many times the advice they give to non T14 kids is just wrong or bad (not necessarily because they do it on purpose, but that they buy in to the hype when they really donít know any better).

I spend a lot of my time on this board shooting down misinformation posted, by probably well meaning folks, who just really donít know what they are talking about. There are generalities, sure, but things are very different in NYC than they are here, I would never try to give advice to someone looking for a job there. But its also very different than the doom and gloom that some people in NYC market think lawyers from other law schools are experiencing. Its not near as bad here as people from far off cites and law schools like to tell me it is.

Someone has to counter that, I wish more people would, but when youíre faced with thread after thread of people bashing your schools, or ever time you try and give a reasoned response the retort is always ďthatísí why you go to X schoolĒ would you want to come here and put up with that just to help people out? No, most would not. Like to admit it or not this board is elitist, it part because the lower school bashing is tolerated and drives those people away so thatís all that is left is mostly T14 kids. People donít necessarily do it on purpose, (some do) but they donít counter it either.  In my view is a detriment to the majority of law students out there who could use some advice that actually pertains to them, but instead get trash talked and stop posting. Hence I, from time to time, through it back in peoples faces. But it never ceases to amaze me how upset some people, often times the same people who trash other schools get when it gets turned around on them (and Iím not saying you have ever done this, this is my first encounter with you, and you seem to not be that type other than the completely logical response you had to me trashing your school).

 People will turn a blind eye to people trashing any school lower ranked then theirs, but boy do they get all riled up if you do it to them. They forget that they are doing it, either purposefully or by their silence to other people every day. It seems hypocritical to me, and sometimes I try to point that out by throwing some of it back at them. As Tasha said, I caught one, you just got mixed up into something bigger than you realized at the time.

Matthies

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Re: Jesus, those JD Underground people are blunt.
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2008, 01:56:08 PM »
Your silence on one and vocal opposition to another. Who else have you called out? When do you call out?

i'm actually not vocal opposition one way or the other.  for example when you brought up that coloring book thing, i just played along because i know that you're kidding around.

See my post above, you donít have to be vocal to have an effect, but when and where you chose to be vocal sends a message that maybe you donít see being sent.