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Author Topic: 1 year since graduation = still no job  (Read 13095 times)

AmyWaxFanClubPresident

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2008, 03:48:16 PM »
I disagree, PE firms are sitting on mountains of cash.  It will be back, but buyouts will be much less leveraged.  Lower return for the PE firm, but from a legal perspective, the work will still be the same.

Are you sure it's not the economy?  He probably doesn't want to get pigeonholed in insurance defense until more transactional stuff picks up.

transactional stuff is never coming back.  :)

i'm curious as to what kind of job OP would be willing to take.  maybe he's already said.  i'm going back to check.
"This semester I will plunge you into the slough of despair, and when you are at your most desolate and are ready to give up, I will give you some light" - Professor Amy Wax

AmyWaxFanClubPresident

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2008, 03:50:58 PM »
Ha.  I've always been enthralled by how litigators and corporate lawyers see the other groups.  Neither can believe that any sane person would want to do the other type of work.  Edit:  Although both hate on tax more.

I disagree, PE firms are sitting on mountains of cash.  It will be back, but buyouts will be much less leveraged.  Lower return for the PE firm, but from a legal perspective, the work will still be the same.

i was kidding.  :P

damned transactional work.  >:(
"This semester I will plunge you into the slough of despair, and when you are at your most desolate and are ready to give up, I will give you some light" - Professor Amy Wax

legalese_retard

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2008, 05:05:13 PM »
I never was interested in PE. I had a really good family friend that was a partner at a smaller PE firm and got the connection through there. The firm likes hiring JDs, even if they had no knowledge of finance because they "learn faster." He said that his firm received so many more qualified applicants than they were expecting, that they decided to only hire someone who was already in PE. Like I said, the job eventually went to a Wharton grad...had I known it was that competitive, I would have taken my hat out of that job pool before I even interviewed.

My original focus was in transactional law, but I adjusted when the economy tanked. The problem is that firms that you would expect would be hiring (bankruptcy, employment, litigation, etc) are not. Supposedly "things will pick up at the end of January." What's said is that I have even been looking on craiglist and the firms there are only paying $30-40K/year with no benefits. What's sad is I think those firms are still getting flooded with resumes and that they can be very selective. One of those firms was in family law and the other one dealt with traffic tickets. 

Bigbie

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2008, 05:40:34 PM »
Aren't there better places to look than craigslist? Don't know, just asking.

Matthies

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2008, 08:28:14 PM »
Thanks for the heads up on the state job, but competition is fierce even for those jobs. Plus, the State has a bias for in-state law students, especially people from the lower ranked Texas law schools who have a tougher time looking for a job. I did submit my applications for a couple of positions on there, but haven't heard a peep.

As far as being a solo or utilizing the solo option, I'm going to have to take a pass on that. Malpractice insurance alone prohibits me from even opening up a shop even if I wanted to (plus I'm sure I maxed out the amount of money a lender would be willing to give me on top of my law school loans). Another PR fact, over 70% of the lawyers who are suspended or disbarred are solos. Usually for failing to communicate effectively with clients or misapplication of client escrow accounts. Finally, of all the subjects I dealt with in law school, criminal law was my least favorite. I just don't feel comfortable representing a client straight out of law school who is facing jail time if I don't represent them effectively. Again, another quick way to lose my license before I even start utilizing it. 

Very, very understandable.  Fingers crossed for those state jobs.  I always thought Tulane was practically a Texas school -

I did want to ask you about malpractice insurance, though.  I've heard that malpractice insurance for newer grads in solo/small firms is often lower compared to more established attorneys at large firms because newer grads handle lower-value matters.  If you don't mind me asking, have you gotten quotes on insurance in Texas? I'm probably going to practice there, and I'm interested in what this would cost for a new attorney.

Nope, I haven't asked for a quote. I think it can go up to $10K/year, but you are right about newer solos having a reduced rate (for the first 3 years I think).

Its about $600-1000 a year for malpratice for first year out of law school grads.  Here you can contract to pick up overflow PD stuff for 2k a month, once you get some experince you can apply to get the felony action which is around 8k a month just doing that. Stop looking on craiglist for jobs, its useful only for hookups/selling sports equitment.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

legalese_retard

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2008, 12:09:27 PM »
I am still hesitant to pursue the ID/PI/traffic law route. While beggars can't be choosers, I am pissed that I have to pick between working crappy hours for less than $40K/year or nothing. If I went to a law school that was in the 3rd or 4th tier or graduated in the bottom half of my class, I would expect this scenario. But I went to a repuatable school (albeit not Harvard or even a Vanderbilt), but still a good school. Every time someone tries to tell me "don't worry things will get a better, this is only because of the economy," I want them to call my student loan company and give them that line when I can't make my student loans.

I don't think I am entitled and I'm not trying to be a spoiled brat by not taking ID/PI/traffic or the like. I have been networking at the local bar and alumni association in town and the attorneys at those events highly advised me AGAINST taking those jobs. Even the folks at the OCS at Tulane cautioned me about this route. They all said that I could be "pigeon-holed" into that area of law for the rest of my career. People who go after ID/PI/Traffic are stuck and almost never move up to big law firms or even medium-small practice law firms. Apparently there is a stigma attached to those law jobs and unless you have the entreprenurial know-how to make your practice big, you will be relegated to 2000+ hours/year at $40-50K per year (plus a holiday bonus of a $50 giftcard to Starbucks).

Matthies

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2008, 12:25:13 PM »
I am still hesitant to pursue the ID/PI/traffic law route. While beggars can't be choosers, I am pissed that I have to pick between working crappy hours for less than $40K/year or nothing. If I went to a law school that was in the 3rd or 4th tier or graduated in the bottom half of my class, I would expect this scenario. But I went to a repuatable school (albeit not Harvard or even a Vanderbilt), but still a good school. Every time someone tries to tell me "don't worry things will get a better, this is only because of the economy," I want them to call my student loan company and give them that line when I can't make my student loans.

I don't think I am entitled and I'm not trying to be a spoiled brat by not taking ID/PI/traffic or the like. I have been networking at the local bar and alumni association in town and the attorneys at those events highly advised me AGAINST taking those jobs. Even the folks at the OCS at Tulane cautioned me about this route. They all said that I could be "pigeon-holed" into that area of law for the rest of my career. People who go after ID/PI/Traffic are stuck and almost never move up to big law firms or even medium-small practice law firms. Apparently there is a stigma attached to those law jobs and unless you have the entreprenurial know-how to make your practice big, you will be relegated to 2000+ hours/year at $40-50K per year (plus a holiday bonus of a $50 giftcard to Starbucks).

I have a classmate who started her own practice right out of law school, she has been licsinsed for all of 8 weeks and already collected 14k in paid fees. She gets referrals and overload cases from attorneys she met through networking, has never advertised and has more work then she can accept. I clerk for a solo who has also never advertised and gets all his work from referrals, he netted over 800k last year. The one thing both these people have in common is that they are not the types to wait around for something to happen to them, they go out and make it happen. You seem to be really good at making excuses for why you donít take this job or donít try that job, why not put some of that energy into actually trying something rather than waiting for someone to hand it to you?   Obviously what you have been doing thus far has not worked yet and its been a year, maybe its time to try something else?
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

JDat45

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2008, 02:59:30 PM »
For precisely the reasons stated: employers will eye you warily if you passed the bar but never worked as an attorney and are now trying for some middle-management position. They could well assume you're unable to find a lawyering job and plan to use them until you find something better. Or they'll consider you overqualified and assume you'll lord your JC over their inferior little heads.

I can't wait to lord my Jersey City over someone's head...


Dammit! LMAO! :D

Eugene Young

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2008, 03:34:11 PM »
I am still hesitant to pursue the ID/PI/traffic law route. While beggars can't be choosers, I am pissed that I have to pick between working crappy hours for less than $40K/year or nothing. If I went to a law school that was in the 3rd or 4th tier or graduated in the bottom half of my class, I would expect this scenario. But I went to a repuatable school (albeit not Harvard or even a Vanderbilt), but still a good school. Every time someone tries to tell me "don't worry things will get a better, this is only because of the economy," I want them to call my student loan company and give them that line when I can't make my student loans.

I don't think I am entitled and I'm not trying to be a spoiled brat by not taking ID/PI/traffic or the like. I have been networking at the local bar and alumni association in town and the attorneys at those events highly advised me AGAINST taking those jobs. Even the folks at the OCS at Tulane cautioned me about this route. They all said that I could be "pigeon-holed" into that area of law for the rest of my career. People who go after ID/PI/Traffic are stuck and almost never move up to big law firms or even medium-small practice law firms. Apparently there is a stigma attached to those law jobs and unless you have the entreprenurial know-how to make your practice big, you will be relegated to 2000+ hours/year at $40-50K per year (plus a holiday bonus of a $50 giftcard to Starbucks).

O RLY?

Dude, then don't come on here complaining about how you can't find a damn job. Nobody in the practice gives a @#!* that you went to Tulane or whatever the hell. If you can't find for yourself, how the hell can you expect to fight for your clients? Go be a barista at Starbucks or something. You don't seem to be cut out for law if all you're gonnna do is sit back and whine. Be proactive. Do something for chrissake.

You could start with growing a pair. Sorry to sound so harsh, but that post sent me off the deep end.

Miss P

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2008, 04:18:09 PM »
Yeah.  I normally agree with Matthies and Eugene on this stuff, but it sounds as if the OP is really trying.  My career services office also advises against taking certain kinds of work unless you're willing to do it long-term.  If employers are still telling him that it's just the economy -- and not his qualifications or level of competition -- preventing him from getting an offer like the one he lost, I think it makes sense not to retreat into traffic ticket defense right away.  It sounds as if he is networking, applying to things out of his comfort zone, working hard at his job, etc.  Cut him a little slack if he needs to vent.  It really sucks to have an offer rescinded.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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