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Author Topic: 1 year since graduation = still no job  (Read 13361 times)

Ninja1

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 08:37:44 PM »
So, you're saying you think the JD detracts from your resume for non-legal positions?  That's interesting.

I think it does if you're applying for jobs that are really beneath your education level, like McDonalds "crew" or something. Otherwise, I've always failed to see how it would weaken an application for any sort of exec level job, even mid-management somewhere.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 09:08:41 PM »
So, you're saying you think the JD detracts from your resume for non-legal positions?  That's interesting.

I think it does if you're applying for jobs that are really beneath your education level, like McDonalds "crew" or something. Otherwise, I've always failed to see how it would weaken an application for any sort of exec level job, even mid-management somewhere.

Did you read the thread?  It's not that it detracts so much as they think you'll leave them once a legal position opens.  No employer wants an employee who'll leave the minute the economy gets better.

Bigbie

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 09:13:06 PM »
For precisely the reasons stated: employers will eye you warily if you passed the bar but never worked as an attorney and are now trying for some middle-management position. They could well assume you're unable to find a lawyering job and plan to use them until you find something better. Or they'll consider you overqualified and assume you'll lord your JC over their inferior little heads.

I can't wait to lord my Jersey City over someone's head...

vap

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 09:27:06 PM »
I've actually thought about leaving off the JD from my resume, but my PR professor strongly suggested that I shouldn't do this because it walks a fine ethical line. According to the prof, failing to mention the fact that I am a licensed attorney is tantamout to misrepresenting the fact that I am not a lawyer. I doubt I could lose my license for failing to put this on my resume, but I don't want to tempt the Texas Bar Association and I don't want to be the case study for future PR classess.
 

Lol @ the bolded.  But really, that's interesting about the ethics aspect.  I'd wonder if you can contact the Bar and get their advice about the resume thing.

I passed the Texas bar, so I am looking in the Houston/Dallas/San Antonio markets. I have been looking for contract positions, but they are not as prevelant in Texas as they are in places like NYC, DC and Chicago. My 2L year I was a summer associate at a large firm in Texas, but I was "laid off" a month after I graduated and was prepping for the February Bar. My qualifications made me competitive at several reputable firms in Texas. I just got shafted by the firm I committed to and positions at other firms were filled by the time I could start looking for a new job.

*&^%.  I'm sorry to hear about the firm.  Have you been applying to non-firm employers, as well?  I'm sure you already know of this site, but just in case: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/jobs/job.html.  I've seen quite a few advertised attorney positions on there.  The TX Attorney General's Office regularly hires new attorneys.  I've heard the work is not always that interesting in some of the non-litigation departments, and the pay isn't great, but it's a start.

As far as I know, most counties in Texas have an appointment system for indigent criminal defendants.  Is that an option?

Is going solo an option (doing the virtual office / advertising thing)?

Ninja1

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 09:13:55 AM »
So, you're saying you think the JD detracts from your resume for non-legal positions?  That's interesting.

I think it does if you're applying for jobs that are really beneath your education level, like McDonalds "crew" or something. Otherwise, I've always failed to see how it would weaken an application for any sort of exec level job, even mid-management somewhere.

Did you read the thread?  It's not that it detracts so much as they think you'll leave them once a legal position opens.  No employer wants an employee who'll leave the minute the economy gets better.

i believe it's supposed to hurt even for some legal positions.  lots of paralegal openings supposedly say explicitly that they don't want JD's.

Ah yes, I have seen the paralegal ads that say, in no uncertain terms, no JDs.

I can see the logic of a place being worried that you'll bail from a non-legal job to a legal job if given the chance, but is that really as big of a concern if you're in a job that already gives you lots of authority and pays well? Like say your dean of anything at some third rate school that still pays you well and gives you a generally good QoL, or mid-level management somewhere making $50-60k without doing a ton of overtime, do you (anyone) think places like that would be as worried about a JD jumping ship? I really don't know, but I am curious what everyone else thinks.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

legalese_retard

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 10:08:22 AM »
I've actually thought about leaving off the JD from my resume, but my PR professor strongly suggested that I shouldn't do this because it walks a fine ethical line. According to the prof, failing to mention the fact that I am a licensed attorney is tantamout to misrepresenting the fact that I am not a lawyer. I doubt I could lose my license for failing to put this on my resume, but I don't want to tempt the Texas Bar Association and I don't want to be the case study for future PR classess.
 

Lol @ the bolded.  But really, that's interesting about the ethics aspect.  I'd wonder if you can contact the Bar and get their advice about the resume thing.


That's actually Chapter 2 of your PR book, "Getting an advisory opinion from the State Bar Association is not a defense." I forgot the example, but one lawyer received an advisory ruling that he can disclose the location of victim's body after his client died. Later, his license was suspended because he breached the attorney-client privilege that was not relinquished after death. Of course the Restatement says something completely different, but that is besides the point.

legalese_retard

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 10:16:51 AM »

poo.  I'm sorry to hear about the firm.  Have you been applying to non-firm employers, as well?  I'm sure you already know of this site, but just in case: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/jobs/job.html.  I've seen quite a few advertised attorney positions on there.  The TX Attorney General's Office regularly hires new attorneys.  I've heard the work is not always that interesting in some of the non-litigation departments, and the pay isn't great, but it's a start.

As far as I know, most counties in Texas have an appointment system for indigent criminal defendants.  Is that an option?

Is going solo an option (doing the virtual office / advertising thing)?

Thanks for the heads up on the state job, but competition is fierce even for those jobs. Plus, the State has a bias for in-state law students, especially people from the lower ranked Texas law schools who have a tougher time looking for a job. I did submit my applications for a couple of positions on there, but haven't heard a peep.

As far as being a solo or utilizing the solo option, I'm going to have to take a pass on that. Malpractice insurance alone prohibits me from even opening up a shop even if I wanted to (plus I'm sure I maxed out the amount of money a lender would be willing to give me on top of my law school loans). Another PR fact, over 70% of the lawyers who are suspended or disbarred are solos. Usually for failing to communicate effectively with clients or misapplication of client escrow accounts. Finally, of all the subjects I dealt with in law school, criminal law was my least favorite. I just don't feel comfortable representing a client straight out of law school who is facing jail time if I don't represent them effectively. Again, another quick way to lose my license before I even start utilizing it. 

legalese_retard

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 10:30:56 AM »
So, you're saying you think the JD detracts from your resume for non-legal positions?  That's interesting.

I think it does if you're applying for jobs that are really beneath your education level, like McDonalds "crew" or something. Otherwise, I've always failed to see how it would weaken an application for any sort of exec level job, even mid-management somewhere.

Did you read the thread?  It's not that it detracts so much as they think you'll leave them once a legal position opens.  No employer wants an employee who'll leave the minute the economy gets better.

i believe it's supposed to hurt even for some legal positions.  lots of paralegal openings supposedly say explicitly that they don't want JD's.

Ah yes, I have seen the paralegal ads that say, in no uncertain terms, no JDs.

I can see the logic of a place being worried that you'll bail from a non-legal job to a legal job if given the chance, but is that really as big of a concern if you're in a job that already gives you lots of authority and pays well? Like say your dean of anything at some third rate school that still pays you well and gives you a generally good QoL, or mid-level management somewhere making $50-60k without doing a ton of overtime, do you (anyone) think places like that would be as worried about a JD jumping ship? I really don't know, but I am curious what everyone else thinks.

I have been applying at non-legal jobs in the interm as well: in private equity, landman, title insurance, and in investment banks. I was applying to places like JPMorgan, Smith Barney, and Merril Lynch before the Bear Sterns meltdown. While those firms like to hire a few JDs, I think they realized that they couldn't afford new hires, just like the bigger law firms. Plus, I have a limited financial background...so I bombed the private equity firm interview when I couldn't answer questions on what P-E ratio I think is optimal for investment in a hedge fund and how to help develop the proper portfolio mix for an employer retirement fund when the client prefers a volitality fluctation of X% (the guy they eventually hired was a Wharton MBA Grad who lateraled from a larger PE firm).

In addition to thinking that you will leave their company as soon as you get a better law job, I've heard that non-law employers just don't like hiring lawyers. Whether it is an inferiority complex or that they think an employer with a JD will be more argumentative and confrontation, lots of managers don't like working over a person with a JD. I have a friend who works at a marketing firm and he said he was very paranoid when he found out a new co-worker had a JD. He said he felt that the guy was going to analyze everything he did even though my friend is more senior than him. I guess to each his own, but that has been my experiences in the non-legal world.   

vap

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 10:42:55 AM »
I've actually thought about leaving off the JD from my resume, but my PR professor strongly suggested that I shouldn't do this because it walks a fine ethical line. According to the prof, failing to mention the fact that I am a licensed attorney is tantamout to misrepresenting the fact that I am not a lawyer. I doubt I could lose my license for failing to put this on my resume, but I don't want to tempt the Texas Bar Association and I don't want to be the case study for future PR classess.
 

Lol @ the bolded.  But really, that's interesting about the ethics aspect.  I'd wonder if you can contact the Bar and get their advice about the resume thing.


That's actually Chapter 2 of your PR book, "Getting an advisory opinion from the State Bar Association is not a defense." I forgot the example, but one lawyer received an advisory ruling that he can disclose the location of victim's body after his client died. Later, his license was suspended because he breached the attorney-client privilege that was not relinquished after death. Of course the Restatement says something completely different, but that is besides the point.

My lack of PR knowledge is blatant! ;)

vap

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Re: 1 year since graduation = still no job
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 10:54:19 AM »
Thanks for the heads up on the state job, but competition is fierce even for those jobs. Plus, the State has a bias for in-state law students, especially people from the lower ranked Texas law schools who have a tougher time looking for a job. I did submit my applications for a couple of positions on there, but haven't heard a peep.

As far as being a solo or utilizing the solo option, I'm going to have to take a pass on that. Malpractice insurance alone prohibits me from even opening up a shop even if I wanted to (plus I'm sure I maxed out the amount of money a lender would be willing to give me on top of my law school loans). Another PR fact, over 70% of the lawyers who are suspended or disbarred are solos. Usually for failing to communicate effectively with clients or misapplication of client escrow accounts. Finally, of all the subjects I dealt with in law school, criminal law was my least favorite. I just don't feel comfortable representing a client straight out of law school who is facing jail time if I don't represent them effectively. Again, another quick way to lose my license before I even start utilizing it. 

Very, very understandable.  Fingers crossed for those state jobs.  I always thought Tulane was practically a Texas school -

I did want to ask you about malpractice insurance, though.  I've heard that malpractice insurance for newer grads in solo/small firms is often lower compared to more established attorneys at large firms because newer grads handle lower-value matters.  If you don't mind me asking, have you gotten quotes on insurance in Texas? I'm probably going to practice there, and I'm interested in what this would cost for a new attorney.