.

[nerfco]

I'm not going there, but CSM actually has a very strong litigation department.

My bad--didn't interview for NY, and was going off second-hand information.

[goaliechica]

I got rejected by DOJ Honors twice. 

how exactly did you get rejected by DOJ Honors twice?

By applying twice and never hearing back from them.  I may have applied a third time.  I don't remember if I applied 1L year.

Er. I know you're the actual DOJ employee and everything, but you can only apply to DOJ honors as a 3L, to start upon graduation. 2Ls can apply to DOJ SLIP (the paid Summer Legal Internship Program) and 1Ls can apply to the DOJ Volunteer Legal Intern Program.

Not that this matters. Just because it seems like people are being confused.


<----not too old for smileys

ETA: So it was different back in the day. That explains it!

[botbot]

If anyone thinks DOJ is the savior for those who couldn't get biglaw, think again.  DOJ is harder to get than law firm work. 

1.  DOJ Honors hiring timeline (3L) often "saves" those who had the numbers for biglaw but, for what ever reason, struck out.
2.  DOJ Honors is easier to get than some firm work and harder to get than other firm work.

[,.,.,.;.,.,.]

Sorry, man.  I guess I just project too much onto others.

[nerfco]

Man, these students are right under your nose. How many times do I have to tell you that not everyone at UC wants to make market at biglaw? These generalizations are aggravating and patently false -- based on not opening your eyes to the realities of our classmates (I can probably count 15 offhand who have explicitly said that they want PI careers). The upshot for everyone is that when you're applying to Kirkland we won't be competing with you, and when we're applying for DOJ (or whatever) you won't be competing with us.

I agree with this completely, so long as we're counting things like the DOJ/other government work as PI. I know many people wishing to go straight into PI or government upon graduation, and even more people who plan to work for biglaw for a while to pay off debts, and then hope to find the most rewarding career they can (and I don't mean financially rewarding).

The DOJ Honors program is definitely the main goal, and not just some backup, for a fairly large number of people, far more than will actually make it in.

[botbot]

Just so the spectators are clear:  Don't believe botbot.  I was being facetious.  Not only is it incorrect, but it would be a bad plan to just think that you can be "saved" by DOJ.  That would be an extremely low probability.  If you bombed out of OCI at a top school, timing wasn't your problem.  You could do 5 more years of law school and 4 more OCIs and still have the same problem.  Is DOJ less selective than O'Melveny and Meyers?  No.  Are they worse at picking up your faults?  No.  Do they ask easier questions or have lower expectations?  No.  Will you do better in an interview with them just because it is later?  No.  You need to change your strategy, not your timeline.

I get it.  You are taking the 'saves' personally.  Everything you wrote above is true, yet everything I wrote is also true.

DOJ still does most of its hiring through 2L summers.  You've missed out on that just as you did for private practice.  There are a number of things available as a 3L, including law firms and government, but none of them are looking to "save" you and they are going to be distrustful of you since you didn't work there as a 2nd summer.  You can save yourself, however, and you have plenty of time to do it, but you certainly can't do it with the attitude that everything is a back-up.

I'm pretty sure ~50% DOJ honors were SLIPers in 2007 (although I would guess you have better access to that info).

Anyways, you are defensive for no reason and remind me why every non-DOJ-H AUSA hates DOJ-Hers.  DOJ Honors is super prestigious and difficult to obtain.  You are a feminine hygiene product and a number of DOJ Honors entrees bombed OCI just like you (you are not special).  Congrats?

[goaliechica]

I'll bite with an actual question for the OP and see how it goes...

You understandably can't comment on your specific section, but sounds like you have a pretty good sense of what the different sections of the DOJ are like. Broadly speaking, do you have any sense of what DOJ work is available outside of D.C. that has the same level of challenging and interesting work that you are doing?

[,.,.,.;.,.,.]

jesus this guy's an a-hole.

the OP?

[botbot]

No, you see, DOJ did not save me.  It rejected me. Twice.  I was an idiot in law school.  Have I not been completely up front about that?  I am special, but only insofar as most people here did not screw up in law school.  I didn't clerk and I didn't work at or summer in biglaw.  That puts me in the minority here as far.

And you weren't supposed to read that whole section.  Yet, you come on here and post that "~50%" stuff with nothing but your own speculation to support it.  Do you think you are really helping other law students with pure conjecture when there is someone who actually has been through it?  Can you at least state that you know two people and one of them was SLIP and the other wasn't?

And, I love honor's hires, as does everyone else here.  The vast majority of non-honors laterals here came from v50 firms (we really raided O'Melveny this year, and Latham is a close second), graduated from t6 (mostly Harvard), and have clerkships under their belts.  The honors hires are generally younger versions of them.  They are really amazing.  You, on the otherhand, insist on describing them as biglaw rejects based on nothing but pure speculation.  You know, you don't offend me at all.  I don't have any ego to inflate here.  If I've screwed up, I'll try and post it here so that others learn from it.  However, please try and refrain from insulting your peers who are applying to the DOJ with your assumptions.

I am not being defensive for no reason.  You make a lot of false statements and baseless allegations.  Your statements simply need correction so that other law students aren't misled.  I am actually unsure why you feel the need to continue to do so.

The H-Panel antitrust materials this year had the ~50% figure.  It isn't pure conjecture, but it is in a stack of materials up at work and I am in another city (take it at face value because I can't prove it, but it is accurate).  I was hoping you would try to prove me wrong so that you could find the materials.

I didn't say they were all biglaw rejects, just some of them.  It is a super prestigious gig that happens to save some biglaw rejects.  No big deal.  There are plenty of people in biglaw who tried to get DOJ-H and didn't.

The DOJ-H guys that I have run across have been douchebags (not in the biglaw wealth overcompensation way, more in the intellectual overcompensation way).  Not that this is uncommon in our field.

Also, I don't know what office you are at, but the four I am familiar with run a balance of hyper prestigious laterals and local DA guys.

[nealric]

This thread should be officially renamed:

"So you've bombed OCI at an elite school- come here so I can crush your hopes of working for the DOJ"