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Author Topic: Prop 8 discussion....  (Read 7635 times)

jeffislouie

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2008, 02:21:59 AM »
Justice is tangy....

jeffislouie

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2008, 02:36:20 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450884,00.html

"Carrying a large, Styrofoam cross, 69-year-old Phyllis Burgess showed up at a rally last Friday against Proposition 8, the ban on same-sex marriage that was passed on Election Day in California.

She was there to show her belief in traditional marriage, she said.

Within minutes, however, angry protesters swarmed around the Palm Springs resident, yanked the cross from her hands and trampled on it."

Not okay folks...  Just as it wouldn't be okay to rip a rainbow flag out of the hands of a gay protester and stomp on it.  Tsk. Tsk.

And in other news:

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=20195191&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8

"A group of about 30 gay rights activists from the group "Bash Back!" stormed into Mount Hope Church in Lansing, Mich. and unfurled a large rainbow flag at the pulpit. The group had also tried to disrupt the Mass by banging on cans and shouting, "Jesus was a homo."
"This is urban fascism come to America's heartland. It must be quickly stopped before it gets out of control," said Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League. "

Calmer heads?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-j-davis/protest-at-mormon-temple_b_143387.html

"But in the end, it wasn't the Mormons that passed Prop. 8 in California, so your nights spent suffering at Holiday Inns will be in vain. It was the people of California who voted to put bigotry on their law books and it's shameful. So let's educate them. Outreach, not Anger. We have to actually spend time on this; we can't solve it screaming for two hours at people walking into a church.

I'm ready for the fight, as long as I don't have to become a crazy fundamentalist monster to be part of it."

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/11/13/004417.php
"During the noon service on Sunday the 9th, a protest was staged outside Mt. Hope Church by black garbed and pink-scarved gay-anarchist activists. While that distracted the security guards, about 40 minutes into the service protesters inside the church who were dressed more normally stood up and began throwing pink confetti, glitter, condoms, and fliers, shouting out slogans like "Jesus was Gay" and rushing the pulpit where they began kissing and making out in front of the congregation. Meanwhile one of the group pulled the fire alarm and several members draped the balcony behind the altar with a sign reading "IT'S OKAY TO BE GAY! BASH BACK!" These activities lasted for less than 20 minutes before most of the protesters fled the church and drove away."

So what's the right thing to do?  Outreach or terrorizing churches?  Which strategy will result in the change desired and which will end with MORE-homophobia, but for different reasons?  How many false preconceptions about homosexuals are reinforced or created by behavior like this?

You can't force a dog to eat.  You can shove as much food as you want into their mouths, but they won't swallow a morsel.  Or, you can coax the dog into eating, bit by bit.

It's just commentary people, meant to inspire thought and not to condemn anyone. 

Justice is tangy....

jeffislouie

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2008, 02:08:21 PM »
This must be one of those 'peaceful' law-abiding protests folks were referencing.
It turns out, a small group of christians went into the Castro district to evangelize.  While I find evangelizing a little annoying, I usually politely tell folks like that I am not interested and they say "Thank you", then go away.
I guess gathering a mob and scaring the crap out of them is a good way to make sure the general public changes their mind about gay marriage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng

Stuff like this makes people think that homosexuals are intolerant a-holes.  While the gay population has a right to walk down the street and/or protest and talk to people, the same is true for evangelists as well.  And neither group should be made to be afraid of being battered or intimidated away....

Tsk, tsk.

Not an acceptable behavior for a group of people who need support from the public....
Justice is tangy....

mugatu

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2008, 02:35:47 PM »
This must be one of those 'peaceful' law-abiding protests folks were referencing.
It turns out, a small group of christians went into the Castro district to evangelize.  While I find evangelizing a little annoying, I usually politely tell folks like that I am not interested and they say "Thank you", then go away.
I guess gathering a mob and scaring the crap out of them is a good way to make sure the general public changes their mind about gay marriage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng

Stuff like this makes people think that homosexuals are intolerant a-holes.  While the gay population has a right to walk down the street and/or protest and talk to people, the same is true for evangelists as well.  And neither group should be made to be afraid of being battered or intimidated away....

Tsk, tsk.

Not an acceptable behavior for a group of people who need support from the public....

I don't have much to say about the previous post, but evangelicals rolling into the Castro in the current political climate strikes me as one of the most unintelligent activities that could be done.  In fact, merely running them out could be seen as treating them with the utmost consideration, all things considered.
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non parata est

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2008, 02:49:51 PM »
Maybe they shouldn't have been carrying "God Hates Fags" signs.

Oh, wait, they weren't.  Weird.  I guess all Christians aren't the same, and the actions of a few shouldn't be taken to be reflective of the group as a whole.

I wonder if it's the same thing with gays... I'll ask Jeffie Boy.  He's usually spot-on when it comes to hasty generalizations about people.  He'll know.
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mugatu

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2008, 02:54:42 PM »
lulz
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

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Julie Fern

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2008, 06:04:37 PM »
I guess gathering a mob and scaring the crap out of them is a good way to make sure the general public changes their mind about gay marriage...

why.  there also proposals?

jeffislouie

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2008, 10:52:37 PM »
Maybe they shouldn't have been carrying "God Hates Fags" signs.

Oh, wait, they weren't.  Weird.  I guess all Christians aren't the same, and the actions of a few shouldn't be taken to be reflective of the group as a whole.

I wonder if it's the same thing with gays... I'll ask Jeffie Boy.  He's usually spot-on when it comes to hasty generalizations about people.  He'll know.

So once again we choose to ignore the message while assaulting the messenger.  How extremely accepting, understanding and willing to listen to different viewpoints you nice people are.

It's no wonder that homosexuals have such an easy time convincing the public that they should get equal treatment.

Here's a clue, haters.  I was making an observation.  One that is perfectly valid.  Not ALL gay people are behaving like total assholes. And I never said or implied that they were.  But there are plenty that are.  And as long as they do and the non-assholes excuse it, the better the chance that folks who think homosexuals hate religion, hate religious people, and don't deserve to be treated with the same dignity as others will always win the gay marriage debate.

You dumbfucks still think I am anti-gay and anti-gay marriage.  That only illustrates that the pro-gay lobby that frequents LSD are, in fact, too stupid and blindly angry to get involved in any sort of serious discussion about anything related to gay rights.

You morons want to fight.  You want to make me the bad guy for making observations in an attempt to have a discussion so you don't have to face the facts: as long as gay people behave like they do in this video, as long as they barge into houses of religion to disgrace themselves and embarrass and upset those that are religios, and as long as they continue to do things like grab crosses out of old ladies hands and stomp on them, there is absolutely ZERO chance of winning support for the very thing you want.

Not all gay people are behaving like this.  The point, my low-IQ having hate mongers, is that the actions of the loud few are drowning out the actions of the many.  This sort of behavior is precisely the reason that prop 8 passed.  The vocal minority, behaving like children and insulting and assaulting other people, make ALL gay people look bad.  By arguing that I am somehow generalizing, you are merely trying to find a way to fool yourselves into thinking that their behavior has no effect.  Yet it does.  It's rather far from helping meet the goal and you are simply too weak or too lazy to face up to it.

So go ahead.  Say I hate gays.  Say I am generalizing.  Continue ignoring the facts .  It couldn't possibly be having any adverse effect on accomplishing your goals whatsoever.  Your average Joe American, watching scenes like these, SURELY will understand that there are tons of peaceful protests going on and even though they see clip after clip just like this, they are sure to step back and accept that this sort of behavior is the exception and not the rule.

Grow up.

Anytime behavior like this is out there, it hurts the rest of you who are trying to do this thing right.  Every time a group spews hate, so long as they are representing gay people it's okay to you.  You hypocrites need to wise up, and fast, and make a big deal about how stuff like this isn't okay and in a big way or you will NEVER see gay marriage.  This sort of discourse is precisely why the world sees America as having serious problems.  Congratulations.  This sort of thing sets back your cause a few decades and instead of acknowledging it and trying to reach out to all the irate little children out there who are unable to contain themselves, you keep on attacking people who are pro-gay marriage for pointing it out. That sort of strategy ALWAYS works.  Because alienating people who actually want homosexuals to have the same rights as you can't possibly backfire.  Really, you guys have it worked out very well.

As for the fuckheads who hold up "God Hates Fags" signs, I actually helped out in a situation or two when I joined the freedom riders in drowning these idiots out and ensuring soldiers families could bury their children in peace.  But that doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter that I rode my motorcycle over 400 miles each way to stand against that sort of thing.  Nope.  You've got me all figured out and know all about me.  I hate gay people.  I hate gay marriage.  I hate, hate, hate.  That's it!  Congrats!  You are all amazingly smart, not to mention psychic.  Or could you be wrong?

Nah.  You're never wrong. 
 ???

Seriously.  How can you attack me for pointing out that more and more video's are surfacing where gay people are actually making it much, much harder for homosexual marriage to be taken seriously?  Bigots, that's what you are.  Anyone that you perceive to be against your opinion is clearly a hate-monger, even if they agree with you.

Great strategy.  That'll turn the majority of American's toward your cause.  Fight hate with hate!  Show straight american that by believing in god they are evil.  Point out how great gay people are by assaulting them for <gasp> expressing their free speech.  Nothing says "We are peacefully unhappy" like having to have cops escort people out of town while an angry mob threatens to follow them all the way home!  Nothing proves that homosexuals deserve to be treated the same as everyone else like video after video of homosexuals treating anyone that might not agree with them like criminals!

Stupid is as stupid does.  This behavior, though you might not care to admit it, is how much of the public perceive homosexuals in general are behaving.  But it's far more fun to attack me for making that point than it is to read, watch, and agree.

Justice is tangy....

mugatu

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2008, 10:57:44 PM »
Maybe they shouldn't have been carrying "God Hates Fags" signs.

Oh, wait, they weren't.  Weird.  I guess all Christians aren't the same, and the actions of a few shouldn't be taken to be reflective of the group as a whole.

I wonder if it's the same thing with gays... I'll ask Jeffie Boy.  He's usually spot-on when it comes to hasty generalizations about people.  He'll know.

So once again we choose to ignore the message while assaulting the messenger.  How extremely accepting, understanding and willing to listen to different viewpoints you nice people are.

It's no wonder that homosexuals have such an easy time convincing the public that they should get equal treatment.

Here's a clue, haters.  I was making an observation.  One that is perfectly valid.  Not ALL gay people are behaving like total assholes. And I never said or implied that they were.  But there are plenty that are.  And as long as they do and the non-assholes excuse it, the better the chance that folks who think homosexuals hate religion, hate religious people, and don't deserve to be treated with the same dignity as others will always win the gay marriage debate.

You dumbfucks still think I am anti-gay and anti-gay marriage.  That only illustrates that the pro-gay lobby that frequents LSD are, in fact, too stupid and blindly angry to get involved in any sort of serious discussion about anything related to gay rights.

You morons want to fight.  You want to make me the bad guy for making observations in an attempt to have a discussion so you don't have to face the facts: as long as gay people behave like they do in this video, as long as they barge into houses of religion to disgrace themselves and embarrass and upset those that are religios, and as long as they continue to do things like grab crosses out of old ladies hands and stomp on them, there is absolutely ZERO chance of winning support for the very thing you want.

Not all gay people are behaving like this.  The point, my low-IQ having hate mongers, is that the actions of the loud few are drowning out the actions of the many.  This sort of behavior is precisely the reason that prop 8 passed.  The vocal minority, behaving like children and insulting and assaulting other people, make ALL gay people look bad.  By arguing that I am somehow generalizing, you are merely trying to find a way to fool yourselves into thinking that their behavior has no effect.  Yet it does.  It's rather far from helping meet the goal and you are simply too weak or too lazy to face up to it.

So go ahead.  Say I hate gays.  Say I am generalizing.  Continue ignoring the facts .  It couldn't possibly be having any adverse effect on accomplishing your goals whatsoever.  Your average Joe American, watching scenes like these, SURELY will understand that there are tons of peaceful protests going on and even though they see clip after clip just like this, they are sure to step back and accept that this sort of behavior is the exception and not the rule.

Grow up.

Anytime behavior like this is out there, it hurts the rest of you who are trying to do this thing right.  Every time a group spews hate, so long as they are representing gay people it's okay to you.  You hypocrites need to wise up, and fast, and make a big deal about how stuff like this isn't okay and in a big way or you will NEVER see gay marriage.  This sort of discourse is precisely why the world sees America as having serious problems.  Congratulations.  This sort of thing sets back your cause a few decades and instead of acknowledging it and trying to reach out to all the irate little children out there who are unable to contain themselves, you keep on attacking people who are pro-gay marriage for pointing it out. That sort of strategy ALWAYS works.  Because alienating people who actually want homosexuals to have the same rights as you can't possibly backfire.  Really, you guys have it worked out very well.

As for the fuckheads who hold up "God Hates Fags" signs, I actually helped out in a situation or two when I joined the freedom riders in drowning these idiots out and ensuring soldiers families could bury their children in peace.  But that doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter that I rode my motorcycle over 400 miles each way to stand against that sort of thing.  Nope.  You've got me all figured out and know all about me.  I hate gay people.  I hate gay marriage.  I hate, hate, hate.  That's it!  Congrats!  You are all amazingly smart, not to mention psychic.  Or could you be wrong?

Nah.  You're never wrong. 
 ???

Seriously.  How can you attack me for pointing out that more and more video's are surfacing where gay people are actually making it much, much harder for homosexual marriage to be taken seriously?  Bigots, that's what you are.  Anyone that you perceive to be against your opinion is clearly a hate-monger, even if they agree with you.

Great strategy.  That'll turn the majority of American's toward your cause.  Fight hate with hate!  Show straight american that by believing in god they are evil.  Point out how great gay people are by assaulting them for <gasp> expressing their free speech.  Nothing says "We are peacefully unhappy" like having to have cops escort people out of town while an angry mob threatens to follow them all the way home!  Nothing proves that homosexuals deserve to be treated the same as everyone else like video after video of homosexuals treating anyone that might not agree with them like criminals!

Stupid is as stupid does.  This behavior, though you might not care to admit it, is how much of the public perceive homosexuals in general are behaving.  But it's far more fun to attack me for making that point than it is to read, watch, and agree.



quoted for lesson in ad hominem argument construction.

also, irony.
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Jamie Stringer

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Re: Prop 8 discussion....
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2008, 11:29:13 PM »



Quote from: Tim Mitchell

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