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Author Topic: For those considering law school next year  (Read 888 times)

$Bill

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For those considering law school next year
« on: October 26, 2008, 03:30:22 PM »
Its starting to look very bad indeed... the ABA is suggesting that most 3Ls have non legal back up plans.

http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/new_law_grads_urged_to_have_backup_plans/#comments


heartbreaker

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 03:39:08 PM »
Wowza.

I gotta say though, this is a problem of ABA's own making. Stop accrediting schools. Shut down the degree mills. Force schools to be honest in their job placement reportings. 44,000 law graduates in one year is an absolutely ludicrous number.

Matthies

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 04:18:48 PM »
I donít read this as saying people need to have non-legal backup plans at all ď"I tell them, 'you need to make a good-faith effort to get yourself a job,' " she is quoted saying. "They've got to have a backup plan, and a backup, backup plan."

I read this as saying, like every career services office does, that relying on OCI as your primary job finding resource is stupid. You need to network, mass mail, take advantage of other school programs, look beyond just SA, in other words make a good faith effort to find a job. Law students are unfortunately a lazy lot when it comes to finding jobs. They tend to put all their eggs in the OCI basket, in this economy with dwindling summer programs thatís just stupid.

Nor do I see a problem with the number of law schools or lawyer wanttobes. I see a problem with unrealistic law students. The vast majority of lawyers work in law firms of 50 people or less, yet the vast majority of law students try for jobs in the biggest firms, where the competition is the fiercest. Biglaw also has an 80% turnover rate by year 3, meaning even if you get that job your not likely to keep it very long. Unrealistic students apply to law school in droves without doing any research beyond what other 0Ls tell them or US news.

The simple fact is most people will end up being mediocre lawyers who canít find work on their own, the best and brightest lawyers will be fine. If your as simple minded as relying on OCI to decide your fate when its obviously not working for many of your classmatesI tend to doubt you have the willpower to make the kind of smart decisions you need to be a good lawyer and advocate for your clients. If you going to take the easeit least work path when finding a job what are you going to do when faced with a hard legal problem?

Let as many people who want to go to school and those that are the best lawyers will rise to the top, and those that arenít will be drumed out of the profession. Limiting the number of law grads so a bunch of half assed lawyers can keep their jobs is pretty stupid. Let the market figure out who survives rather than artificially limiting the supply so those that are not good at the profession can still stay in it.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

heartbreaker

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 04:56:11 PM »
Even if all 44,000 of these new JDs had remarkable social skills and could network like nobody's business, there will never be 44,000 gainful entry-level legal jobs available. I know people from T3 and T4 schools in NYC who do network, who have connections within government and within small-midsize firms, who cannot find jobs simply because there are very few legal jobs available for new grads outside of what's doled out at OCIs. Even when they meet people at events who say they would be great within their firm, they get no job offers because there are no jobs to offer.

Maybe this is an NYC thing - it is an incredibly oversaturated market - but, IMO, it's a fair assessment of many major markets.

TheFoz

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 05:39:00 PM »
Why does this concern people considering law school next year? If you're entering fall 2009 then you wont be interviewing for 2L jobs until fall 2010 when the economy should be on the upswing. If the economy is still going down in 2 years whether or not you can land a nice paying gig will be the least of your problems.

TheFoz

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 05:42:16 PM »
How does this effect people entering fall of 2009? If that's the case then you wont be interviewing for 2L jobs until fall of 2010 when the economy should (and will) be on the upswing. If the economy is still falling two years from now then getting a job out of law school will be the least of your worries.

hitmon33

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 06:25:05 PM »
So if we can get into a top 20 school, do you think it's still a good investment to go?

$Bill

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Re: For those considering law school next year
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 08:25:45 PM »
Why does this concern people considering law school next year? If you're entering fall 2009 then you wont be interviewing for 2L jobs until fall 2010 when the economy should be on the upswing. If the economy is still going down in 2 years whether or not you can land a nice paying gig will be the least of your problems.

They can get out right now with 0 debt and nothing but a faint tugging of "what could have been" 10 years down the line.  If your a 3l right now your probably screwed anyways...

I mean for heavens sakes, GW is suggesting people find a back up.  The comments are quite eye opening as well.

And if your top 20... i dunno, it just seems like a bad time to leave your job for a 3 year vacation.  ffs dont listen to me, do your own research on the market.  Im just some guy on the internet clearly embittered by my attempt at getting into law school.


Above the law on OCI cancellations....  NYU OCI cancellations are quite shocking.
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/08/more_on_on-campus_interview_ca.php


edit:  look at the front page of atl

for the benefit of the lazy:


So far we have received letters from the following law schools urging students to accept their offers prior to the NALP deadline: Northwestern, NYU, Columbia, UPenn, UT, Michigan, and even Hofstra. The message from career services departments all across the nation is that firms are oversubscribed, and that some firms are rescinding offers. Sit on multiple offers at your own risk.

Late Friday evening, Harvard Law School -- which just completed their extremely late fly-out week process -- decided to enter the fray. From an email sent out to all interviewing students:

    Important Information about Responding to Offers

    You may have heard reports that some firms have rescinded offers to students because their summer programs were full. While some firms have rescinded offers, the vast majority of firms have not engaged in that practice and have no intention to do so. Use good judgment and take the time you need to make an informed decision. Keep in mind that some firms' summer programs are filling up more quickly than others. If you have any concerns about whether an offer will be held open or any other issues, we suggest that you call the hiring partner or recruiting director so that you are making decisions based on fact.

    If you are able to make your decision before the expiration of the 45-day period, we encourage you to do so. Law firms will appreciate your prompt response and so will your classmates who may be in a position to receive an offer from an employer that you have turned down.

Comparing HLS to everybody else after the jump.

Most of the information we've received suggests that HLS students should be the most concerned about oversubscribed summer programs due to their late starting interviewing process. But this letter doesn't put students' feet to the fire like other OCS departments have suggested.

The tenor of other OCS letters (and our coverage) has been "Accept. Now. You Idiots!" But HLS is suggesting a very restrained approach. They are telling people to take all the time they need and to make their decision before the 45-day NALP guideline if possible.

What are they thinking? In comparison to how other schools are handling fall recruiting, HLS OCS seems to falling back on the legendary HLS hubris that makes students and alumni reviled around the world.

"You believe that you are special. That somehow the rules do not apply to you."

We'll see if HLS is right. We'll see if firms will hold spots open long enough for HLS students to take their sweet time.

How many Harvard students does it take to screw in a light-bulb? Just one. He holds the bulb up and the world revolves around him.

We'll see.