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Author Topic: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!  (Read 8998 times)

HippieLawChick

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2008, 10:38:46 PM »
I am sorry, but this sounds like you just aren't great at interviewing, or only participated in OCI and didn't look beyond that.   If you had realistic expectations, and did something other than go to class at school, you should be employed.  You should consider expanding your idea of what types of jobs you are looking at.

Are you looking for 2L summer?  You need to get going on some networking ASAP.

Going to a school just because it's ranked a few spots higher won't help if you come across as unpolished in interviews.  Do some mock interviews with career services and hone those skills.  You are probably better off doing that than posting ridiculously untrue comments on the internet.

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2008, 11:04:40 PM »
Sorry to hear about that, bro.  But don't be myopic: you're going to a great school and you have a long career in front of you.

For the record, the 2Ls at my school seem fine.  I know a few pretty well and they all have callbacks at good firms, even Cravath.  But we're closer to T5 than T14, in most respects.  (Yes, I realize that US News puts us at 7.)

nealric

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2008, 11:43:05 PM »
Even T14 is no lock these days. I know some people with decent grades who are still emphty handed.

The difference is quite dramatic. There are current 3Ls who were significantly below the median last year who had offers galore. This year, there are people who made top 1/3 who have had difficulty getting any offer at all.

If you are to believe ATL (which I suppose is a decently big if), there are even a good number of HLS people who are having trouble.
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MLaw11

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 12:29:51 AM »
Only a few weeks until the 1L job hunt begins.  Bad economy + 1L...I'm just waiting for strike three.

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 12:55:30 AM »
Even T14 is no lock these days. I know some people with decent grades who are still emphty handed.

The difference is quite dramatic. There are current 3Ls who were significantly below the median last year who had offers galore. This year, there are people who made top 1/3 who have had difficulty getting any offer at all.

If you are to believe ATL (which I suppose is a decently big if), there are even a good number of HLS people who are having trouble.

HLS scheduled its OCI too late in the season.  I think it's reasonable that HLS people, especially at the bottom, might be having trouble.  However, in the long run, they should be fine.  There have been years like this one: 1982, 1987, 1991.  They'll still have the HLS degree when this rolls over.

T14 never has been a lock.  It's silly to lumping fourteen schools with very different national, or more regional, reputations and assume their thousands of students can find big firm jobs.

Again, everyone I've spoken with seems fine at my school.  I don't know how widespread the problems are, or to what extent they can be mitigated by good bidding.

nealric

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 12:59:41 AM »
To be sure, a decent bit of the problem with people I know who are offerless is bad bidding. A lot of it is people who are set on a secondary market and ended up not putting in any NYC bids for safety.
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botbot

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 11:06:40 AM »
I am sorry, but this sounds like you just aren't great at interviewing, or only participated in OCI and didn't look beyond that.   If you had realistic expectations, and did something other than go to class at school, you should be employed.  You should consider expanding your idea of what types of jobs you are looking at.

Are you looking for 2L summer?  You need to get going on some networking ASAP.

Going to a school just because it's ranked a few spots higher won't help if you come across as unpolished in interviews.  Do some mock interviews with career services and hone those skills.  You are probably better off doing that than posting ridiculously untrue comments on the internet.

This year is nothing like last year...

observationalist

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 11:44:14 AM »
Seriously. I foolishly choose a T18-15 with money over lower T14s. Ended up at median 1L year. So far jobless. This especially applies to people who are much better at standardized tests than studying. Better to have a big debt and a big salary than small debt and no salary

I think going to a smaller school with less competition for the same markets has really helped Vanderbilt keep our job prospects up this year, despite the overall decrease in summer firm positions.  The difference is that we're looking at one or two offers instead of five or six when all is said and done (unless you're on law review or have a high gpa, in which case you're starting to help your friends find work so they can stop worrying).  Those of us below what we assume is the median have done fine... two of us (1% of the class) landed V100 for the summer and with our top firms, which IMO extolls the virtues of not competing with our classmates to represent Vanderbilt at those particular offices. 

At this point in the game, each career services counselor has a list up on her wall marking how many of her 20 or so students are still trying to pin down jobs.  I spoke with one of them at the Equal Justice Works Career Fair last weekend and she's got 16 with jobs and 4 still looking... one of them is my roommate and he's not worried about getting something eventually because that's the sort of person he is.  The individual focus my classmates are having has definitely helped lower everyone's stress levels and gotten us more focused on contacting alums, staying in touch with hiring partners, and reaching out to firms that traditionally hire Vanderbilt grads but didn't come to OCI this year.  It's taking more effort but I expect the job placement numbers will be almost as good as last year.  And last year the 2Ls pulled off about 2/3s of the total class employed at NLJ250 firms, with 3/4 getting jobs through OCI.  What we're more worried about is achieving the right mix next summer between attending social events and still impressing employers with our work product to where they'll make all of us permanent offers.  In the chance the job market continues to worsen, Career Services is already ramping up 3L OCI plans for next year.  I would also expect admissions will continue aiming for the widest geographic dispersal of incoming students they can, in part to keep the competition low and also to make the case for bringing in more firms from markets like Seattle and Portland (where my low-gpa left coast classmates resorted early on to pursuing non-OCI routes to finding work.)

In short: stay positive, contact the many alums your school has around the country, ask your classmates/friends for advice, and get on your career services people to expand your search to non-firm organizations that have many attorneys who move in and out of private practice in the market you're looking to work.  This may be the route some of my classmates will be doing if they ultimately end up without offers from the firms they want.  G'luck.
Vanderbilt University Law School Class of '10

George545454

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 02:19:39 PM »
Did mock interviews before. The counselors said I did very well - indeed, good enough to overcome by grades (I am .1 below median). I had really good rapport with a couple of the interviewers. Still nothing. Below median hurts. Also, my GPA was .1 above median until I screwed the pooch in one class, so that probably looks bad. My story isn't unusual in this economy either. And yes, there is a difference between T18-15 and T14. It is not hype.

observationalist

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Re: Go to a T14 IN THIS ECONOMY!
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 02:57:32 PM »
Did mock interviews before. The counselors said I did very well - indeed, good enough to overcome by grades (I am .1 below median). I had really good rapport with a couple of the interviewers. Still nothing. Below median hurts. Also, my GPA was .1 above median until I screwed the pooch in one class, so that probably looks bad. My story isn't unusual in this economy either. And yes, there is a difference between T18-15 and T14. It is not hype.

I really don't think a stark difference is being seen between schools separated by one or two spots on the USNews ladder.  Most firms are still hiring some summer associates this year; all they've done is lower the size of their summer class.  In this scenario I really do see the larger schools feeling the hurt more than the smaller ones because of the sheer number of students they're trying to place with the same number of firms.  The same problem goes for schools that place a majority of grads in a single market, because those students are competing with each other for a limited number of spots in each firm.  There is still a demand at most firms to have students from a variety of top law schools, and being able to differentiate yourself from other applicants helps.  The level of success placing the 10-15 Vanderbilt 2Ls wanting to work in Houston is going to be better this year than the success of placing however many UT 2Ls aiming to work there when you look at class percentages.  And if- after all the callbacks are done- a third of my class doesn't end up with a job through OCI, that still translates into about 40 students that Career Services will now be working with on an individual level, a much smaller number than people in a similar position at GULC, UT or another larger school.

The Houston scenario might not address your situation if you're looking at other markets besides those in Texas, but I don't think you can draw the line between 14/15 for firm success this year based on what you've observed at your school.  In a few months each school should have enough placement information ready to distribute to prospectives in time for them to be making decisions on where to go, and at that time I guess we can revisit the argument of what schools are the best bets in a shrinking job market.
Vanderbilt University Law School Class of '10