Wanting to go to a HBCE school for pre-law

[wingman]

Why is everyone so angry?  Quit bashing schools.  Oh, and about the remark that if a school has the word "state" in it, it is no good - be a little bit more pretentious and I'll puke.  I go to a state school, and it is fan - f*ckin - tastic.

Life if not all about the school on your diploma or the job you hold.  If you think so, well I feel sorry for you.  I'd rather just be happy.  Go where you will be happy, don't listen to people on a message board.

Yeah, what about Ohio State? They're ranked in the 30s...

[sinkfloridasink]

Can I just jump in here for the FSU-bashing?

Please?

[Susan B. Anthony]

Yea, I understand the text that you cited.  I don't, however, see how that particular statement entails supporting segregation.  So unique benefits flow to black students at PREDOMINANTLY black schools.  That is NOT to say that there are not also students of many races who attend those same schools.  Perhaps all those who attend such universities derive important benefits from such an environment. 

I definitely do not belive that MissP was suggesting that segregation was/is a good idea, nor is she committed to believing that based on her statements.

I understand the word predominantly and I understand that there are also students of other races attending the same universities. The indicator isn't "black students do better at universities that have X amount of other races," but instead, it's "black students do better at universities that are predominantly black."

If you agree with the studies showing that black students perform better in predominantly black universities, would you not agree that  black students would perform equally well or better in an all black university?

If you think that black students doing well is a good thing, and black students do well in a mostly black environment, how can you not conclude that segregation is positive in some way?

If you agree with the studies, but disagree with the conclusion that segregation is good, then what is your conclusion?

That's not what was said. What Miss P said is "unique educational benefits that cannot be measured by college rankings flow to black students who attend predominantly black colleges and universities"

Unique benefits not reflected in rankings != all black students would do better at a predominately black college or university than elsewhere.

FFS.

[wingman]

Yea, I understand the text that you cited.  I don't, however, see how that particular statement entails supporting segregation.  So unique benefits flow to black students at PREDOMINANTLY black schools.  That is NOT to say that there are not also students of many races who attend those same schools.  Perhaps all those who attend such universities derive important benefits from such an environment. 

I definitely do not belive that MissP was suggesting that segregation was/is a good idea, nor is she committed to believing that based on her statements.

I understand the word predominantly and I understand that there are also students of other races attending the same universities. The indicator isn't "black students do better at universities that have X amount of other races," but instead, it's "black students do better at universities that are predominantly black."

If you agree with the studies showing that black students perform better in predominantly black universities, would you not agree that  black students would perform equally well or better in an all black university?

If you think that black students doing well is a good thing, and black students do well in a mostly black environment, how can you not conclude that segregation is positive in some way?

If you agree with the studies, but disagree with the conclusion that segregation is good, then what is your conclusion?

That's not what was said. What Miss P said is "unique educational benefits that cannot be measured by college rankings flow to black students who attend predominantly black colleges and universities"

Unique benefits not reflected in rankings != all black students would do better at a predominately black college or university than elsewhere.

FFS.

What is a "unique benefit"?

[Matthies]

Yea, I understand the text that you cited.  I don't, however, see how that particular statement entails supporting segregation.  So unique benefits flow to black students at PREDOMINANTLY black schools.  That is NOT to say that there are not also students of many races who attend those same schools.  Perhaps all those who attend such universities derive important benefits from such an environment. 

I definitely do not belive that MissP was suggesting that segregation was/is a good idea, nor is she committed to believing that based on her statements.

I understand the word predominantly and I understand that there are also students of other races attending the same universities. The indicator isn't "black students do better at universities that have X amount of other races," but instead, it's "black students do better at universities that are predominantly black."

If you agree with the studies showing that black students perform better in predominantly black universities, would you not agree that  black students would perform equally well or better in an all black university?

If you think that black students doing well is a good thing, and black students do well in a mostly black environment, how can you not conclude that segregation is positive in some way?

If you agree with the studies, but disagree with the conclusion that segregation is good, then what is your conclusion?

I don’t know I went to a public university and it was predominantly white, so what the difference of having one that predominantly black? They are not segregated, there were just more whiteys at my school than non whiteys maybe because more whiteys go to college than non whiteys?  Almost all schools except HBCU are predominantly white.

[Susan B. Anthony]

What is a "unique benefit"?

A benefit that is unique?

I don't know, why don't you read the studies?

[Jamie Stringer]

Yea, I understand the text that you cited.  I don't, however, see how that particular statement entails supporting segregation.  So unique benefits flow to black students at PREDOMINANTLY black schools.  That is NOT to say that there are not also students of many races who attend those same schools.  Perhaps all those who attend such universities derive important benefits from such an environment. 

I definitely do not belive that MissP was suggesting that segregation was/is a good idea, nor is she committed to believing that based on her statements.

I understand the word predominantly and I understand that there are also students of other races attending the same universities. The indicator isn't "black students do better at universities that have X amount of other races," but instead, it's "black students do better at universities that are predominantly black."

If you agree with the studies showing that black students perform better in predominantly black universities, would you not agree that  black students would perform equally well or better in an all black university?

If you think that black students doing well is a good thing, and black students do well in a mostly black environment, how can you not conclude that segregation is positive in some way?

If you agree with the studies, but disagree with the conclusion that segregation is good, then what is your conclusion?

I wouldn't necessarily agree.  Perhaps black students performed better in schools that were predominately black, but not in schools where black students composed over 50% of the student body (i.e. a plurality of the students, as opposed to the majority).  Perhaps black students performed better in schools that had a majority of black students, but when the number approached 90% or higher, the performance went down?  Who knows?  But I wouldn't assume what you did based upon the information stated in this thread.

As for the other stuff about FSU being more respectable than an HBCU...

[Ninja1]

Can I just jump in here for the FSU-bashing?

Please?

We've been having a pretty good battle royale so far, might as well jump on in. I'll help.

@#!* Florida and @#!* Tulane!

Let's see if we can get everyone from every school fighting.

[Miss P]

Oh, for goodness' sake! I said that there were some benefits to students who attend HBCUs.  I didn't say that going to an HBCU was the correct or necessary choice for all black students.  Nor did I suggest that single-race education is generally a good idea, that the benefits would be similar in the K-12 context, or anything else that could conceivably promote "segregation."  (I'll also note that elsewhere on the board, I have railed against de facto segregation in public schools and promoted the kinds of voluntary desegregation policies that the Supreme Court recently rejected -- or curtailed, anyway.)

Here's the most famous study about HBCUs, conducted by the Educational Testing Service in the 1990s: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/15/1f/d2.pdf.  There's plenty more elsewhere, but it's a start for those of you who don't want to google.

[mfs73]

Also, find a real school if at all possible.

What do you mean?

HBCU's are crap.

And Florida State is an Ivy?

No, our football program is actually well respected from time to time. That being said, it's a hell of a lot more respectable that any HBCU, and better than your school... oh... wait...

Also, I'd shoot myself if I had to deal with Yalies all day.

What is the basis for the bolded?  I believe that Howard, for instance, is ranked similarly to FSU, and some historically black liberal arts colleges like Spelman and Morehouse have excellent reputations.  Moreover, study after study has shown that unique educational benefits that cannot be measured by college rankings flow to black students who attend predominantly black colleges and universities (HBCU or not). 

The basis is that it's a fact. No one has heard of Howard outside of its region, academia, and sections of the black community, and HUSL is easily the most respectable of the HBCUs with a law school. Everyone has heard of FSU. Insta-respect.

I almost don't want to reply to this because I feel that you're not really providing any logical basis for your argument...it's as if you're making wild statements based on your own preconceived notions or passions.  I suppose I'll state this anyway for those that may be open to divergent viewpoints/new information.  My entire career has been in investment banking (with a few years in equity research).  I've worked for only the top institutional firms on the client side (though I did spend one year at a large int'l firm with a fairly small presence in the US).  If you follow the markets, then you know my resume.

With that said, save for the int'l firm, EVERY firm that I've worked for recruits from Howard.  It's almost unfair that they look to Howard in particular for highly qualified diversity candidates.  We have some diversity candidates at Wellesley, for example, who aren't courted NEARLY as much as the Howard candidates.  Nevertheless, our Howard summer associates get offers.  Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse are the most respected HBCUs at our firm and we recruit form them very OFTEN. 

I'm sure that FSU provides a quality curriculum for their students.  It's just not a school that is highly represented at any of the firms that I've worked for (at all).  I did meet one VP that went to FSU, but she got the position because she then went back for her JD at U of M.  Spelman in particular is an excellent school and those three aforementioned HBCUs in particular get heavy recruitment from top NY firms.