Thoughts on Williams and Connolly?

[thorc954]

why dont you look into getting an externship doing transactional work next semester?  Then you will have a better idea of what they do.  Or, you could sign up for a transactional legal writing class.  Either way, if you do the W&C thing and decide its not for you, 3L OCI shouldnt be that difficult.

Oh, and I believe that W&C doesnt give offers at the end of the summer.  You have to call up and ask for an offer or something (kinda weird, but I guess it is because most of their summers do clerkships).  Anyway, I hope you end up making the right decision for you.

[sbellsianno]

pretty sure this is a failed attempt at a subtle brag.

in case you're serious...if you wanted to try areas of law other than litigation, W&C would not be the ideal place for that. what are the negative you have heard?

Mainly, lots of work (like 2400 or so) and no bonuses, which makes you feel undercompensated. Then again, it seems you get real work with real responsibilities instead of doc review and having very little responsibility. I'm not sure how I feel about white collar criminal defense which is their main practice. Also, the biggest question is whether I want to be doing litigation or transactional. I have no idea what transactional lawyers do, and it's tempting to go to a place where I can at least try it. 

If you're not absolutely sure you want to do litigation, why in the world would you go to Williams & Connolly?

Because they seem like an awesome firm. Just because I've never done any transactional work shouldn't mean that I should pick someone else, or that I will not enjoy litigation. I mean, what if I go to a different firm, try corporate and end up hating it, and will choose litigation. W&C will not take me back, I'm pretty sure about that, and they are thought of as the best litigation firm out there. If, on the other hand, I don't like W&C or litigation, I could potentially reinterview and go to a firm with corporate practice. Of course the problem is I still won't know what the heck transactional lawyers do and if it is for me...

Dude, we have lots in common.  My big concern is whether i wanna do transactional too!  i know i'd love Lit, but transactional sometimes seems cool.  but what the hell do they do on a daily basis?  just draft contracts?  sounds horrible! i get the impression that transactional only becomes cool when you're a partner.  

plus, from my experience, those who go into transactional are the ones who realized that they hate the law, but it's too late to change. litigtion -- w&c in particular -- is why most people go to law school in the first place, or the closest thing to it.  congrats!

just trying to figure out my chances.  can ask what your approx gpa/rank was at uva? any cool w/e prior to law school?

[sbellsianno]

You have to call up and ask for an offer or something (kinda weird, but I guess it is because most of their summers do clerkships).

That's what I've heard as well.  But there's the understanding that you are always welcome back after 3L/clerkships unless you truly embarrassed yourself, in which case you'd know you weren't welcome back.

ditto. someone had told me that w&c had "competitive" summer offers, but many have refuted that, even if you don't clerk.

[StudentUVA]

pretty sure this is a failed attempt at a subtle brag.

in case you're serious...if you wanted to try areas of law other than litigation, W&C would not be the ideal place for that. what are the negative you have heard?

Mainly, lots of work (like 2400 or so) and no bonuses, which makes you feel undercompensated. Then again, it seems you get real work with real responsibilities instead of doc review and having very little responsibility. I'm not sure how I feel about white collar criminal defense which is their main practice. Also, the biggest question is whether I want to be doing litigation or transactional. I have no idea what transactional lawyers do, and it's tempting to go to a place where I can at least try it. 

If you're not absolutely sure you want to do litigation, why in the world would you go to Williams & Connolly?

Because they seem like an awesome firm. Just because I've never done any transactional work shouldn't mean that I should pick someone else, or that I will not enjoy litigation. I mean, what if I go to a different firm, try corporate and end up hating it, and will choose litigation. W&C will not take me back, I'm pretty sure about that, and they are thought of as the best litigation firm out there. If, on the other hand, I don't like W&C or litigation, I could potentially reinterview and go to a firm with corporate practice. Of course the problem is I still won't know what the heck transactional lawyers do and if it is for me...

Dude, we have lots in common.  My big concern is whether i wanna do transactional too!  i know i'd love Lit, but transactional sometimes seems cool.  but what the hell do they do on a daily basis?  just draft contracts?  sounds horrible! i get the impression that transactional only becomes cool when you're a partner.  

plus, from my experience, those who go into transactional are the ones who realized that they hate the law, but it's too late to change. litigtion -- w&c in particular -- is why most people go to law school in the first place, or the closest thing to it.  congrats!

just trying to figure out my chances.  can ask what your approx gpa/rank was at uva? any cool w/e prior to law school?

Don't want to out myself completely here, but I did quite well my first year. I'm on LR, and probably top 5% or so. Nothing special about me besides that.

[sbellsianno]

pretty sure this is a failed attempt at a subtle brag.

in case you're serious...if you wanted to try areas of law other than litigation, W&C would not be the ideal place for that. what are the negative you have heard?

Mainly, lots of work (like 2400 or so) and no bonuses, which makes you feel undercompensated. Then again, it seems you get real work with real responsibilities instead of doc review and having very little responsibility. I'm not sure how I feel about white collar criminal defense which is their main practice. Also, the biggest question is whether I want to be doing litigation or transactional. I have no idea what transactional lawyers do, and it's tempting to go to a place where I can at least try it. 

If you're not absolutely sure you want to do litigation, why in the world would you go to Williams & Connolly?

Because they seem like an awesome firm. Just because I've never done any transactional work shouldn't mean that I should pick someone else, or that I will not enjoy litigation. I mean, what if I go to a different firm, try corporate and end up hating it, and will choose litigation. W&C will not take me back, I'm pretty sure about that, and they are thought of as the best litigation firm out there. If, on the other hand, I don't like W&C or litigation, I could potentially reinterview and go to a firm with corporate practice. Of course the problem is I still won't know what the heck transactional lawyers do and if it is for me...

Dude, we have lots in common.  My big concern is whether i wanna do transactional too!  i know i'd love Lit, but transactional sometimes seems cool.  but what the hell do they do on a daily basis?  just draft contracts?  sounds horrible! i get the impression that transactional only becomes cool when you're a partner.  

plus, from my experience, those who go into transactional are the ones who realized that they hate the law, but it's too late to change. litigtion -- w&c in particular -- is why most people go to law school in the first place, or the closest thing to it.  congrats!

just trying to figure out my chances.  can ask what your approx gpa/rank was at uva? any cool w/e prior to law school?

Don't want to out myself completely here, but I did quite well my first year. I'm on LR, and probably top 5% or so. Nothing special about me besides that.

how many from uva got w&c offers this year?  i heard they only give 2-3 offers per school in the top 14.

[StudentUVA]

You have to call up and ask for an offer or something (kinda weird, but I guess it is because most of their summers do clerkships).

That's what I've heard as well.  But there's the understanding that you are always welcome back after 3L/clerkships unless you truly embarrassed yourself, in which case you'd know you weren't welcome back.

ditto. someone had told me that w&c had "competitive" summer offers, but many have refuted that, even if you don't clerk.

That's actually one of my big concerns about W&C now. I don't want to be nervous about grades this year like I was last year, and so I'm worried that there is a greater chance of not getting a summer offer from W&C than from other places. You said many have refuted that claim- have you talked to some people about it?
Oh and I think there were about 3 offers to UVA kids this year from W&C.

[sbellsianno]

I talked to several 3Ls -- friends and friends of friends -- who worked there as 2Ls.  All said that there's NO greater chance of not receiving an offer from w&c b/c of grades than any other firm (ie, the chances are insignificant, unless you just tank). In fact, the chances are higher at other firms like gdc and latham.  As long as you do OK during the summer, i hear you should be fine.  Have you heard differently?  What are your other concerns?

Also considering Cravath.  Everyone says i'd be insane to pick cravath over w&c, unless i really have NO idea whether i wanna do Lit or Corp (i'm strongly leaning Lit) or unless i just love NYC (which i don't). 

[sbellsianno]

I'm pretty sure that the GDC & Latham being tougher on 2Ls up for perm offers b/c of grades just comes from the comments thread on Above the Law.  I don't think that those firms are much tougher on their recruits than other similarly-ranked firms.

i saw those comments on atl too, but i heard this about gdc well before those comments were published.  in any case, everyone tells me that w&c is incredibly pragmatic one you get the summer offer -- ie, as long as you do well during the summer, you're fine.

[StudentUVA]

Where else are you considering by the way?

I'm looking at Cravath and some other NYC firms.

[daylighthasbroken]

If you want to work in DC or if you're pretty set on lit, go to W&C.  I mean, it's the best for both.  Go do second looks at W&C and other places you're considering to get a better perspective, try to figure out the lit/transactional thing, you do have a little time.