Trying being denied something not because of intelligence, but by color of your skin. Hmm... white person with a 3.4/160 and black person with a 3.4/160 both apply, white person is denied and black person is let in. White person is denied because their skin color isn't dark enough. Yeah... that system makes COMPLETE sense.
Quote from: PSU ftw on October 11, 2008, 02:06:08 PMTrying being denied something not because of intelligence, but by color of your skin. Hmm... white person with a 3.4/160 and black person with a 3.4/160 both apply, white person is denied and black person is let in. White person is denied because their skin color isn't dark enough. Yeah... that system makes COMPLETE sense.I guess now you see what we black people have suffered from for centuries.Your experience still does not compare...white people still have it much easier in our society...Explain to me why it is that even with AA the number of blacks that get accepted and attend law school is still significantly lower than that of white people? If we did not have AA...damn some of us would not even have a chance. I guess that would make you feel better.
Quote from: shana2077 on October 11, 2008, 02:24:09 PMQuote from: PSU ftw on October 11, 2008, 02:06:08 PMTrying being denied something not because of intelligence, but by color of your skin. Hmm... white person with a 3.4/160 and black person with a 3.4/160 both apply, white person is denied and black person is let in. White person is denied because their skin color isn't dark enough. Yeah... that system makes COMPLETE sense.I guess now you see what we black people have suffered from for centuries.Your experience still does not compare...white people still have it much easier in our society...Explain to me why it is that even with AA the number of blacks that get accepted and attend law school is still significantly lower than that of white people? If we did not have AA...damn some of us would not even have a chance. I guess that would make you feel better.Maybe because there ARE fewer blacks in this country. Maybe of that minority number, not as many apply to law school as whites do. Maybe there is __% of blacks because that's the percentage of the applicant pool they make up. Doesn't mean standards should be lowered, often 8+ LSAT points, just to let more in to law school.
I do not think that people can defeat racism with racism. Also, how can a school determine whether a person has been the object of racism? If you are black, does that mean you have faced discrimination? If you are white, does that mean you have not faced discrimination? I think it is absurd that some people believe that everything that is wrong in the black community is a result of racism. If AA is necessary, how long will it take before it will become unnecessary? In my opinion, AA is reverse racism. I do not think it helps to alleviate racism, but further promote it. An example of this is Clarence Thomas. Many people think that the only reason he got into Yale was because of AA, not because of his brilliance and hard work. With AA in place, many people assume that their black classmates are there as a result of AA, not a result of their talent. This needs to stop. We do not need to constantly class people by their physical characteristics. We do not need one race believing that another race owes them something, or one race thinking another has an unfair advantage just because of the color of their skin. I was born in 1986, do not hold me accountable for something SOME WHITE people subjected SOME BLACK people to long before I was born.
Quote from: j23 on October 11, 2008, 01:41:35 PMAnd after 100 tears or so of reverse racism I think we could call it even then. I know as a whitey I would like to say, whoops sorry about that whole slavery thing, jim crow laws, not letting you into our law schools until 30 years ago and everything else we did bad, but alls forgiven now, we are equal now, I was not born then, so lets just get rid of any benifit you have no matter how small it is in comparison to the benifit we had for 200+ years, thats fair right? kthxbi.Beside this whole conversation has nothing really to do with AA and has more to do with certain peoples sense of entitlement that they should be able to go to certain school, like they have that right, and someone is taking their spot so they are pissed. You know whoís taken your spots? Not the blacks, the damn womenz, they are are 51% of most entering classes, they should be in the home making babies. Want to blame someone for AA, women invented it, other minorities just saw what a great tool it was and picked up the banner. Mad you canít get into Yale? Blame your mother for being so uppity and demanding equal treatment they ruined it for all white males. Otherwise STFU lifeís not fair, and thinking it is or should be is what we get for raising a generation of pampered coddled kids who got trophy just for playing in little league even though they lost every single damn game. Youíre not gifted, youíre not special, youíre not entitled to go to some school just because you work hard, no matter what your mom told you. The world does not owe you anything and you donít get rewarded just for trying hard. Sorry but thatís the breaks. Deal with it.
I'll bite, albeit very, very hesitantly. I don't think anyone would dispute that African-Americans, as a race, have endured a great deal of discrimination throughout American history. Then again, the same case could be made for Asian-Americans (see: Japanese internment camps during WWII, Chinese Exclusion Acts, etc.), Native Americans (obviously), Hispanics, and even in more recent cases but on a more limited basis, Arab-Americans. However, many of these groups do not enjoy the same type of easily identifiable bump in the admissions process, and the idea of quantitatively trying to weigh the pain and suffering of one race over the other seems to be inherently ridiculous. So you noted that many African-Americans are not given the resources to succeed, and I won't dispute that either. However, is this due to discrimination or a lack of economic resources, and if it is the latter, is it exclusive to lower-income families solely of African-American descent? While discrimination does still exist in this country, I would argue that it does not have a large effect on the two primary factors for admission into law schools--the LSAT and your GPA, and does not exist among the overwhelming majority of adcomms. Now, a lack of resources may have a quantifiable effect on those numbers, especially if one has to support one's self throughout college (detracting from time that could be spent studying for class or getting involved in extracurriculars), and that should certainly be taken into account. But racism alone cannot justify one applicant getting in over another, and AA cannot function as a "make-up" for the sins of past generations when it basically handicaps future generations of other races who essentially were not involved in it. I don't think that the U.S. could ever really apologize adequately for what slavery was, but at the same time, it doesn't make sense to essentially punish the applicants of the present for those sins. Given equal resources to prepare adequately for the LSAT and do well in school, it would seem unfair for you to benefit from the hardships your ancestors suffered. After all, under such an assumption, you have been given the exact same opportunity to succeed; why should you be allowed to hurdle over another applicant with identical merits? In a slightly perverse way, it shares a common thread with the argument against legacy admits--you shouldn't be able to get an edge based on the past accomplishments of your ancestors, nor should you be able to be able to gain an edge based upon the past injustices perpetrated against them. Grades on the law school level (at least one assumes; I'm not quite there yet, but I would hope that this is a fair assumption) are solely merit-based, so why should admissions be any different?
Now, I think you gravely mis-characterize the affirmative action programs, at least how they exist today in our nation's colleges and universities. I don't think Black kids are getting in over white kids solely because of their race. If that were true, you'd have Blacks with sub-par scores getting over likely admits (in fact, affirmative action displaces white kids who probably would not have gotten in anyways). I think affirmative action works in two ways: 1) you have a small group of Black kids who are objectively qualified to get in to a particular school. Affirmative action assures that this group is admitted; and 2) you have a group of individuals are the margins and race is used as one of many factors to admit students to a class