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Author Topic: Are NY firms going to $190K  (Read 6995 times)

deedeeleigh

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 12:17:06 AM »
There's no city tax in Hoboken, so you're saving what would probably be about 7-8k in taxes a year (based on a 160k salary).  When I lived there, I paid NY state taxes, and had them refunded at the end of the year, and then had to pay NJ state taxes for the year. That was just the way my company set it up though, I'm sure you could pay NJ state taxes out of each paycheck instead.

NJ also has a renters tax break--I got a check for about 100 bucks for the year I lived there. Nothing huge, but a nice touch. 

The main problem with living in Hoboken/JCity is the cost of cabs. They charge an interestate rate, even though it's probably faster to get to Hoboken than it is parts of Brooklyn or Queens.

I'd think rents at this point are similar in Hoboken as they are to areas like Park Slope/Prospect Heights and the commute to mid-town is probably similar too. The tax benefit probably isn't worth it if you just don't like Hoboken.  I think a one bedroom in Hoboken near the PATH would be about 2k right now, how much is one in mid-town, in let's say Murray Hill? I haven't kept up much with Manhattan prices. 

bigjoefatz

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 11:34:40 AM »
As a Brooklyn Native, I can attest to the fact that it does take longer to get to the city from where I live (southern bklyn) then from Jersey.

Who wouldn't want to live in Hobo? I mean, c'mon, Eli Manning is there -- MY GIANTS>

antsor5

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 01:07:16 PM »
yea, hobo isn't too bad into the city by Path (subway) or ferry, both <15 to midtown west area. can't really speak on BK.

Jets

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 04:20:03 PM »
190k is on the way, but it won't matter with our wheelbarrow economy.

Refused Party Program

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2008, 04:22:28 PM »
I have been hearing/reading this rumor for a while, and I just do not see how it is possible. I understand that NYC is more expensive than Dallas (where many firms are paying $160K). However, using the starting market in Dallas (or say Atlanta which is 145K) to say that lawyers in NYC should get a raise is slightly erroneous at best. Market dictates salary. If NYC can "only" pay 160K, and students take it, why would they raise. What is their incentive to do so? Fairness? I doubt fairness is considered. Frankly, we are all going to make too much money for what we can do coming out. While I'm not certain, partners most likely think we get paid too much.

Also, where is this money coming from? I doubt it would come out of the pockets of partners. So, you might make more, but you will have to bill more, or they will hire less first years. Either way, you are going to be working harder and you life as a result will be less fulfilling (unless the only way you can define yourself is by being a BigLaw Hotshot Lawyer with a six figure salary and if that is the case I'm not sure "fulfilling" is really an accurate description of your life). Is $30K more a year really worth it?

One poster mentioned he/she wasn't sure what NYC firms have to offer since you are basically getting paid less once you factor in cost of living. That is a fair statement, and one I thought at the start of the job search. However, NYC firms can offer jobs where as some of the smaller markets cannot. Right now, the job market SUCKS. Many, many people with great grades and good personalities cannot get a job here in Atlanta (I go to Emory). However, we can find jobs in NYC and CA. So while Atlanta may offer a better COL/pay ratio at least at first), there are less jobs to go around, so it really isn't an option. I think the big firms here got caught up in the salary raises and now it is starting to hurt them.

T. Durden

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 08:05:46 PM »
I have been hearing/reading this rumor for a while, and I just do not see how it is possible. I understand that NYC is more expensive than Dallas (where many firms are paying $160K). However, using the starting market in Dallas (or say Atlanta which is 145K) to say that lawyers in NYC should get a raise is slightly erroneous at best. Market dictates salary. If NYC can "only" pay 160K, and students take it, why would they raise. What is their incentive to do so? Fairness? I doubt fairness is considered. Frankly, we are all going to make too much money for what we can do coming out. While I'm not certain, partners most likely think we get paid too much.

Also, where is this money coming from? I doubt it would come out of the pockets of partners. So, you might make more, but you will have to bill more, or they will hire less first years. Either way, you are going to be working harder and you life as a result will be less fulfilling (unless the only way you can define yourself is by being a BigLaw Hotshot Lawyer with a six figure salary and if that is the case I'm not sure "fulfilling" is really an accurate description of your life). Is $30K more a year really worth it?

One poster mentioned he/she wasn't sure what NYC firms have to offer since you are basically getting paid less once you factor in cost of living. That is a fair statement, and one I thought at the start of the job search. However, NYC firms can offer jobs where as some of the smaller markets cannot. Right now, the job market SUCKS. Many, many people with great grades and good personalities cannot get a job here in Atlanta (I go to Emory). However, we can find jobs in NYC and CA. So while Atlanta may offer a better COL/pay ratio at least at first), there are less jobs to go around, so it really isn't an option. I think the big firms here got caught up in the salary raises and now it is starting to hurt them.

well yeah that's another aspect of it. nyc attnys generally work harder than attnys in other markets. so not only do we (i.e. nyc associates) have to deal with the obscene CoL, we also have to deal with the fact that our supervising partners are generally going to demand more. from a career point of view, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, esp if you plan to lateral into something a little more functional after several years of hard on the job training. still, the fact remains that you expect some form of compensation commensurate with the level of effort you're putting into your job. yeah, bonus serves this function but a lot new attnys expect still expect that representative wage... which, depending upon how you look at it, doesn't exist in nyc anymore.

a couple of things that i attempt to remind myself of:
-when i applied to law school in '05, the biglaw wage was 125 and that seemed amazing to me. the fact that i'm now complaining about 160k is (at least on some level) semi-absurd.
-though i have to pay ~6k in city taxes, i don't have to 1) get a car, 2) pay for insurance, 3) spend hours in rush hour per week, and 4) worry about paying for egregious gas fees [i.e. these things have a way of balancing themselves out]
-yeah ok you don't need a car in DC either and you're still getting 160 - ok, fine, but i personally believe that the 6k is more than worth the price paid for living in DC ;)
-if and when 190k actually does happen, it'll happen in nyc first! haha, at least i, uh, have that ..

so what's up with hoboken? i heard that it's semi-quiet / boring and more or less reserved for 30 somethings. is this an unfair mischaracterization? fun place to live? it sounds like it might be a viable alternative to living in the city [my studio apt is 2700 a month ... ridiculous]


Patently No

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 07:40:35 PM »
No.

themanwithnoname

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 06:21:55 PM »
Sorry, but raising salaries right now would be absolutely crazy. One major firm just fell apart and another is in serious danger of it, there are layoffs at many firms, and who knows what big client could fall apart next. At this point I am just hoping for a bonus. T. Durden, you pay 2700 a month for a studio in Manhattan? You are getting ripped off.

antsor5

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2008, 06:47:29 PM »
I have been hearing/reading this rumor for a while, and I just do not see how it is possible. I understand that NYC is more expensive than Dallas (where many firms are paying $160K). However, using the starting market in Dallas (or say Atlanta which is 145K) to say that lawyers in NYC should get a raise is slightly erroneous at best. Market dictates salary. If NYC can "only" pay 160K, and students take it, why would they raise. What is their incentive to do so? Fairness? I doubt fairness is considered. Frankly, we are all going to make too much money for what we can do coming out. While I'm not certain, partners most likely think we get paid too much.

Also, where is this money coming from? I doubt it would come out of the pockets of partners. So, you might make more, but you will have to bill more, or they will hire less first years. Either way, you are going to be working harder and you life as a result will be less fulfilling (unless the only way you can define yourself is by being a BigLaw Hotshot Lawyer with a six figure salary and if that is the case I'm not sure "fulfilling" is really an accurate description of your life). Is $30K more a year really worth it?

One poster mentioned he/she wasn't sure what NYC firms have to offer since you are basically getting paid less once you factor in cost of living. That is a fair statement, and one I thought at the start of the job search. However, NYC firms can offer jobs where as some of the smaller markets cannot. Right now, the job market SUCKS. Many, many people with great grades and good personalities cannot get a job here in Atlanta (I go to Emory). However, we can find jobs in NYC and CA. So while Atlanta may offer a better COL/pay ratio at least at first), there are less jobs to go around, so it really isn't an option. I think the big firms here got caught up in the salary raises and now it is starting to hurt them.

well yeah that's another aspect of it. nyc attnys generally work harder than attnys in other markets. so not only do we (i.e. nyc associates) have to deal with the obscene CoL, we also have to deal with the fact that our supervising partners are generally going to demand more. from a career point of view, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, esp if you plan to lateral into something a little more functional after several years of hard on the job training. still, the fact remains that you expect some form of compensation commensurate with the level of effort you're putting into your job. yeah, bonus serves this function but a lot new attnys expect still expect that representative wage... which, depending upon how you look at it, doesn't exist in nyc anymore.

a couple of things that i attempt to remind myself of:
-when i applied to law school in '05, the biglaw wage was 125 and that seemed amazing to me. the fact that i'm now complaining about 160k is (at least on some level) semi-absurd.
-though i have to pay ~6k in city taxes, i don't have to 1) get a car, 2) pay for insurance, 3) spend hours in rush hour per week, and 4) worry about paying for egregious gas fees [i.e. these things have a way of balancing themselves out]
-yeah ok you don't need a car in DC either and you're still getting 160 - ok, fine, but i personally believe that the 6k is more than worth the price paid for living in DC ;)
-if and when 190k actually does happen, it'll happen in nyc first! haha, at least i, uh, have that ..

so what's up with hoboken? i heard that it's semi-quiet / boring and more or less reserved for 30 somethings. is this an unfair mischaracterization? fun place to live? it sounds like it might be a viable alternative to living in the city [my studio apt is 2700 a month ... ridiculous]



i think hoboken is a lot of fun. It has some really fun bars. i would recommend living way downtown right by the path so its convenient getting into nyc and your by the downtown bars. or way uptown by 14th and from there u can just take the ferry to midtown in like 6 minutes...
if your not sure if youll like it, visit it a couple nights and see how you feel. its kind of a love it or hate it place. its very small compared to manhattan, so i suppose it can get repetitive and boring, but for a couple years its a fun way to save money...mostly mid twenties that live there. i also think theres a college in it (stevens?), so theres some college kids too.

T. Durden

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Re: Are NY firms going to $190K
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2008, 07:14:26 PM »
Sorry, but raising salaries right now would be absolutely crazy. One major firm just fell apart and another is in serious danger of it, there are layoffs at many firms, and who knows what big client could fall apart next. At this point I am just hoping for a bonus. T. Durden, you pay 2700 a month for a studio in Manhattan? You are getting ripped off.

i dunno. seems pretty average to me. in our first year class, people are paying anywhere from 2200/month to 3500/month.

when i didn't account for was the ridiculous tax rate. i can expect to pay over 40% of my income out in the form of taxes this year. that's ~$64,000 for those of you who are counting. it's obscene ...

i will most likely be taking a 2nd bar exam in feb. NY is just too expensive (from its tax structure to its CoL). i haven't decided on the market yet.