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Author Topic: Cravath or Cleary  (Read 7788 times)

Kirk Lazarus

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2008, 11:14:09 PM »
I think that grouping all the V10s into one lump category is grossly uninformed.  First of all Cravath and Cleary don't even have minimum billables and their compensation is lockstep.  Secondly, the cultures at different V10 firms are vastly different.  Davis Polk is very different from Cleary, for example and Kirkland and Cleary are pretty much polar opposites.  Third, everyone works a lot - inside and outside of the V10.  Sure you'll find a difference between Cleary and Kramer Levin, but between Cleary and Sidley or between Cleary and Winston&Strawn - not so much. 

Incorrect. They're all the same. They market themselves differently, but the culture is the same.
YLS c/o 2009

OldCraig

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2008, 11:36:56 AM »
They don't have minimum billables b/c they know associates like yourself are going to come in and start crapping on people for the highest billable hour amount -

Think about it... that's all i'm saying. I'm not attacking your mother here.

ferbear

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2008, 02:37:21 PM »
They don't have minimum billables b/c they know associates like yourself are going to come in and start crapping on people for the highest billable hour amount -

Think about it... that's all i'm saying. I'm not attacking your mother here.

I think OldCraig's on point. The whole idea of this thread is a little perverse and self-congratulatory. At that point, the culture's pretty similar and the work's the same beyond what you can look up in publicly available data. Anything anyone on this board could offer would be prejudicially anecdotal.
'10

Miss P

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 12:03:24 AM »
They don't have minimum billables b/c they know associates like yourself are going to come in and start crapping on people for the highest billable hour amount -

Think about it... that's all i'm saying. I'm not attacking your mother here.

I think OldCraig's on point. The whole idea of this thread is a little perverse and self-congratulatory. At that point, the culture's pretty similar and the work's the same beyond what you can look up in publicly available data. Anything anyone on this board could offer would be prejudicially anecdotal.

I suppose I agree, except that the publicly available data indicate pretty clearly that Cleary is a much more pleasant place to work, and the OP was asking if there were any hidden details (e.g., breadth of selection at firm cafeteria) or other information s/he hadn't picked up in her/his search.  I understand Old Craig's and Galt's points -- that at every firm there will be pressure to bill as much as possible (at least for people who want to make partner) and that every firm is unpleasant -- but things like what's on offer for lunch and whether associates can bill their pro bono hours one-to-one and if there are provisions for flex time for new parents and how transparent the annual review process is, etc. etc., make a big difference in how people feel about work.  I find it fairly ungenerous of you to characterize the OP's sincere questions as "perverse and self-congratulatory."
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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OldCraig

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 09:25:04 AM »
I think both firms have the same one-item starter menu for lunch. What's on it? You guessed it:

               "Lil' heartattack-platter-by-the-time-you're-29 Parfait"

I hear it's good.

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Harvey Dent

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2008, 09:47:40 AM »
I find it fairly ungenerous of you to characterize the OP's sincere questions as "perverse and self-congratulatory."

I think it's a pretty legitimate inquiry, much like a 0L asking for advice on the question of Yale vs. NYU full ride.

I think both firms have the same one-item starter menu for lunch. What's on it? You guessed it:

               "Lil' heartattack-platter-by-the-time-you're-29 Parfait"

I hear it's good.

"hi."

What exactly is your experience with large law firms in NY, anyway?*

*Not to be interpreted as me saying that I disagree with your assessment.
LSN

Miss P

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2008, 02:31:19 PM »
I find it fairly ungenerous of you to characterize the OP's sincere questions as "perverse and self-congratulatory."

I think it's a pretty legitimate inquiry, much like a 0L asking for advice on the question of Yale vs. NYU full ride.

What made that thread such brilliant flame was not the question but the fact that Shivenstein acted as if his position was torturous.  Asking these types of questions -- with the hope of getting responses from people who have informed opinions -- is exactly what a forum like this is good for.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

OldCraig

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Re: Cravath or Cleary
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2008, 04:07:29 PM »
If by "experience" you're asking if I have worked at one, then I have no experience.
However, if you mean any dealings whatsoever, then I have a few I would consider valuable.

I know professors who have worked at these firms who have spoken to me in depth about their experiences.  I have spoken to other attorneys during the callback process who have worked at these firms, but no longer do.  I have interviewed with comparable firms.  And last but not least, I have done traditional paper research on these firms, because I seriouly considered working for them.

That being said, perhaps my view is completely skewed because I chose not to work in NY big law, and I am simply defending my own choice not to do so.  That's certainly a possibility.  Then again, I was simply weighing in on a public inquiry with my own opinion, one which I warned was negative prior to disclosing. 

I don't think anyone on this forum, if they actually worked there, would be in a hurry to bash the place that sustains them.  And also, they would be subject to the same choice-defense bias that I can be accused of.   

That being said, I again, must submit, that these firms will provide negative associate experiences FOR MOST grads across the board.  I just feel that way.  I am glad they are there, and that people work them, because it reminds me of how I'm not AS miserable AS I COULD BE during rather low moments.