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Author Topic: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?  (Read 5179 times)

Thistle

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Re: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2008, 02:08:25 PM »
Any school outside the top 25-30.  I'm not going to bicker with you about this either.  I have landed summer associate positions.  It's a fact that better ranked schools = more opportunities.  I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying it is the way it is.

oh, i'm not going to bicker.  one has more chance of changing the earth's rotation than an elitist's attitude.  i guess some people always need someone to be able to point to and say "thank god i'm not in their position!"


i will not disagree that there are "more opportunities" -- i will disagree that attending any school outside the top 30 is a "risky venture."  that's just ludicrous. 

Your earlier posts indicate you went to law school to save the world.  Now that you are no longer disillusioned, the reality of your lack of meaningful job prospects is setting in.  No wonder you get all defensive when people make an opinion about lower ranked law schools.



i am "no longer disillusioned?" lol

are you admitting that it is merely your "opinion" and not fact?  i dont mind people's opinions -- i do mind when they tout them as absolutisms.

being here for this long has made me lose what little patience i had for the top-school-or-kill-yourself mentality, and the know-it-all syndrome which appears to accompany it.  the tone of your posts in this thread are indicative of your own defensiveness at having that "opinion" questioned. 

so just run along and enjoy those many opportunities that you have available, and dont worry your little head about us poor unfortunates outside the top 50.  we'll do just fine.
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

TheDudeMan

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Re: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 02:11:46 PM »
LoL.  I'm not defensive.  I have plenty of friends that attend lower tiered schools.  However, students should be armed with the reality of their job prospects out of them if they aren't top of the class.

Sure, some will succeed, but the majority will have an uphill battle getting to where they want to.  If you just want a law degree for yourself, fine go to a lower ranked school.  However, if you want to practice at a firm or go to one of the more selective public interest programs, you are going to have to be top of your class.

That isn't an opinion.  That is reality.  Sure, there are exceptions as Matthies has stated, but that doesn't change the fact that there are too many people in law school, the economy sucks, and lower tiered schools are going to be in a tougher position to find jobs.

Matthies

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Re: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 02:18:21 PM »
LoL.  I'm not defensive.  I have plenty of friends that attend lower tiered schools.  However, students should be armed with the reality of their job prospects out of them if they aren't top of the class.

Sure, some will succeed, but the majority will have an uphill battle getting to where they want to.  If you just want a law degree for yourself, fine go to a lower ranked school.  However, if you want to practice at a firm or go to one of the more selective public interest programs, you are going to have to be top of your class.

That isn't an opinion.  That is reality.  Sure, there are exceptions as Matthies has stated, but that doesn't change the fact that there are too many people in law school, the economy sucks, and lower tiered schools are going to be in a tougher position to find jobs.

I think the thing is, as is often the case, people make opinions on this board about things they have never done or experienced themselves. I just donít see this doom and gloom around me at my school, everyone I know has a job. I wonít talk about other schools, because well I donít know what they are like, but it seems other people are experts in the job situation from schools they have never been to in markets they never applied in. I think thatís the general gist of what Tasha is saying.

Times are tough no doubt, and if the extent of your job search is OCI and mass mailing, well expect to be disappointed as those paths are becoming more limited as the market tightens, worse the lower down the rank pool you go but thatís not the case at every school for every student everywhere ranked 30 or below.  Some folks are just better at finding opportunities for themselves, others need it handed to them by the school. If youíre the later, and many law students are, then you should go to the best school you can get into or donít go, otherwise if left to your own devices you will likely be unemployed or underemployed.

I just donít buy into the its my schools fault mentality. I never went to law school with the idea that it was my schools job to find me a job. It was the schools job to teach me the law, finding a job was something I had to take some personal responsibility in. I started looking on my own as soon as I got here. Do most students do that, no. But thatís not the schools fault. It is undeniably a fact that lower on the ranking you go the less opportunities you will have for school provided jobs (like OCI) but that is not preventing you from going out and looking on your own. I have yet to get any job from my school, I found them all my own. The problem as I see it is not so much with schools ranking as much with students expectations of what their school is supposed to provide them. If you think itís the schools job to find you a job than you should go to a school where that has the highest probability of that happening or don't go. If your school is not normally the conduit for finding employment for the magority of its graduates than you should take proactive steps to make that happen for yourself not wiat for the school to do it for you. its simply a diffrent stratgey, but one that too many students don't get, they think what works at Yale should work down here, then get disspointed when it does not turn out that way.
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TheDudeMan

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Re: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2008, 02:22:14 PM »
I agree Matthies.  I also feel, however, that students going into law school often have unrealistic expectations of what being a lawyer encompasses.  Even at lower ranked schools, most students will graduate with significant debt and that debt is going to be a nightmare to deal with if you aren't making Biglaw money.  The reality is, most lower ranked students aren't going to Biglaw.

Sure, there are jobs.  But the word "job" is rather broad.  I don't know about anyone else, but for me, going to law school wouldn't be worth it if I was going to make less than I currently make, but hey, that's just me.

redcement

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Re: non-trads, with the benefit of hindsight would you do it again?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2008, 09:36:36 PM »
To the nontrads who posted: thank you for your insight, and your optimism. It's funny, there are nontrad undergrads with those wheelie bags as well...and with the "I-wash-my-kids-mouths-out-with-soap" bizarre, off-topic additions to the class discussions.

For myself, I did not do so well on the lsat, but I am interested in law, esp. public advocacy and criminal law (OK... so that's all I've been exposed to so far). I am a word nerd and a work horse, and I think I'm meant to be a lawyer. I figure debt will be just a part of my life, even with consolidation and income contingent repayment plans.

Define "not so well on the LSAT."  Honestly, in this economy if you can't get into a top school you are insane for taking on the debt of law school.  You will end up bitter, unemployed, and buried under mounds of debt while having lost 3-4 years of your life.

I got a 154, 60th percentile. Really not so well. But like I said, I am interested in public advocacy and criminal law right now, and I agree with much of what Mathies said (uh, in this thread). I make my own plans. I plan on LRAP, government income contingent repayment options, and loads of debt for ten years. I plan on finding my own way, be it working as a public defender or starting my own advocacy center using one skinny grant at a time. Despite what some unnamed persons say about poor people, it changes your perspective in a freeing way sometimes. You aren't afraid of big bad debt for instance. And your measure of success changes too. I know an attorney who argued in front of the Supreme Court. He went to a T-4. You T-14 people are undoubtedly the popular kids, runnin' things. That isn't all that's going on.