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Author Topic: John McCain's VP Selection is a Complete Disaster For The Republicans  (Read 11167 times)

pig floyd

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2008, 08:37:03 PM »
When a republican talks up palin, I just wish people would ask them, ok, good, but what is she going to do as VP?

They won't know.  She doesn't even know.   :)
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jeffislouie

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2008, 09:12:44 PM »
I would wager that she would help pressure Congress to actually work, be an advocate for families with special needs children, and various other vice-presidential duties, as promised.

What would Joe Biden do exactly? 

Yeah.  The same sort of *&^% that every VP does - whatever needs to be done.

This is an empty argument because it implies that democrats know exactly what Joe Biden will do as VP and only stupid conservatives or, god forbid, dissillusioned, ostracized, life-long democrats like me don't.

She'll push her agenda, which appears to revolve around energy independence through mutliple realistic avenues, supporting our military, promoting peace and democracy, defending the constitution, cleaning up the environment, and changing the way washington works (because it hasn't in quite some time).

I agree that the republicans made serious mistakes.  I agree that the republicans wasted their opportunity and were corrupted to some extent.  But the problem isn't only those republicans who lost their way - just as many democrats did too.  I don't think Obama represents the kind of change in politics that any of us want or need.  I've lived in Chicago my whole life and Chicago politics, cook county politics, and Illinois state politics are all about power grabs, growing government, and asking for pay raises.  We don't need that.  McCain has been fighting waste and standing against his own party at great personal risk since he came to washington, and he won't stop as President.

The left doesn't want another Bush, and with McCain they won't get one.  But with Obama, there is a good chance of recession, more governmental control over individuals, and less money in everyone's pocket.  He will weaken our military and damage our economy.  Even a glimpse over his tax plan should be enough for anyone to realize that under an Obama Presidency, the cost to the consumer of goods and services will increase - and by a lot.  He says he'll tax business.  If you buy anything, you will pay more because businesses will pass the bill on to you.

Palin isn't as much of an unknown as you think. 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25970197

And I was pretty sure that one of Obama's selling points was that he wasn't a washington outsider....  Then he picked the biggest insider in washington to run with, primarily to try and force McCain from attacking his experience.  Well, McCain went the other way.  He's been around and even though he fights for what he believes, often crossing the aisle to get things changed, he realized that he needs an advocate for change who isn't entrenched in the washington scene.

Let's not forget, Bill Clinton was the governor of another small, usually disrespected state too....
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sinkfloridasink

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2008, 09:21:56 PM »
I would wager that she would help pressure Congress to actually work, be an advocate for families with special needs children, and various other vice-presidential duties, as promised.

What would Joe Biden do exactly? 

Yeah.  The same sort of *&^% that every VP does - whatever needs to be done.

This is an empty argument because it implies that democrats know exactly what Joe Biden will do as VP and only stupid conservatives or, god forbid, dissillusioned, ostracized, life-long democrats like me don't.

She'll push her agenda, which appears to revolve around energy independence through mutliple realistic avenues, supporting our military, promoting peace and democracy, defending the constitution, cleaning up the environment, and changing the way washington works (because it hasn't in quite some time).

I agree that the republicans made serious mistakes.  I agree that the republicans wasted their opportunity and were corrupted to some extent.  But the problem isn't only those republicans who lost their way - just as many democrats did too.  I don't think Obama represents the kind of change in politics that any of us want or need.  I've lived in Chicago my whole life and Chicago politics, cook county politics, and Illinois state politics are all about power grabs, growing government, and asking for pay raises.  We don't need that.  McCain has been fighting waste and standing against his own party at great personal risk since he came to washington, and he won't stop as President.

The left doesn't want another Bush, and with McCain they won't get one.  But with Obama, there is a good chance of recession, more governmental control over individuals, and less money in everyone's pocket.  He will weaken our military and damage our economy.  Even a glimpse over his tax plan should be enough for anyone to realize that under an Obama Presidency, the cost to the consumer of goods and services will increase - and by a lot.  He says he'll tax business.  If you buy anything, you will pay more because businesses will pass the bill on to you.

Palin isn't as much of an unknown as you think. 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25970197

And I was pretty sure that one of Obama's selling points was that he wasn't a washington outsider....  Then he picked the biggest insider in washington to run with, primarily to try and force McCain from attacking his experience.  Well, McCain went the other way.  He's been around and even though he fights for what he believes, often crossing the aisle to get things changed, he realized that he needs an advocate for change who isn't entrenched in the washington scene.

Let's not forget, Bill Clinton was the governor of another small, usually disrespected state too....

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bloomlaw

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2008, 11:46:37 PM »
I need a shovel for all of the poo in this thread.

I can't wait until all of you young bucks have to start paying taxes on your biglaw salaries.  The majority of you will be Republicans within 5 years of graduating law school. 

The old saying goes: If you are under 30 and a conservative, you don't have a heart. If you are over 30 and liberal, you don't have a brain.

And I would vomit up my liver before I took a job in big law, so please don't stereotype.

SwEep

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2008, 12:44:14 AM »
truth be told, i've been a Republican all my life up until recently. I think I reached age of reason fairly late, but it's better than never.

I just can't see how you can be a grown up modern person and still support the Republican party.

goaliechica

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2008, 01:43:51 AM »
I need a shovel for all of the poo in this thread.

I can't wait until all of you young bucks have to start paying taxes on your biglaw salaries.  The majority of you will be Republicans within 5 years of graduating law school. 

Yes, because we don't understand what taxes are when we make these arguments. Way to call people out  ::)

I think plenty of us have paid plenty of taxes on jobs that paid far less than biglaw. But thanks for that.
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jeffislouie

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2008, 02:32:06 AM »
If you're a life-long Democrat, I'll eat my shoe.

Break out a good knife and a whole lot of ketchup then.
When I was growing up, my father volunteered time to the local democrat party.  This happened to coincide with my 17th birthday, and being interested in politics at that young age, I would sometimes go along to meetings.  He even helped get Senator male private part Durbin elected to the US Senate, working the phones, organizing, etc (a fact he now regrets deeply).  When I turned 18, Bill Clinton had just taken office.  I spent Clinton's first election cycle covering the democrat's local party circuit as part of my Senior Year Radio Broadcasting class/after school program.  I won a prize for the radio feature I had prepared featuring Carol Mosely Braun.  I was at the party the democrats threw for her the night she won a seat in the US Senate.

When Clinton ran for reelection, I voted for him - and supported him.  I went door to door for that campaign.  He won.  I was part of the process.  It felt great.

When Al Gore ran against W the first time, I voted for Gore/Lieberman but due to my job as a bar manager, I didn't have time to work on his campaign.  The night Bush was elected, a night I remember clearly, was a total pooch screw by the media.  When they first called it for Gore, I bought everyone in my packed bar a shot.  When they flipped and called it for Bush, the bar fell silent.  By 3 am, we figured we wouldn't be getting an answer right away, but as I closed that night I turned to my last regular before he left and said "Here comes a recession."

When John Kerry ran against Bush, I was 100% behind Kerry.  My family would fight with me about this vote (they still do).  I voted for Kerry.  He lost.  I had become a restaurant GM.  I barely had time to vote and once again wasn't able to work for the campaign.  Kerry lost.  It was about a year and a half later when I started getting angry with the democrats.  Instead of running on issues and winning legislative wars by compromising but getting it done, I started to see an increase in the personal attacks levied against our sitting President.  Perhaps it began as some psychological need to fight for the little guy, but it ended up with me realizing that the left had been overrun by overly sensitive, overly nasty, fringe players. 

Howard Dean became the chair of the DNC, a huge mistake, and the party was lost to the far left.  He started saying things like "I hate republicans and everything they stand for."  Hate?  From a democrat?  I never hated republicans.  Some of the things they stand for align perfectly with democrat ideals.  Often the difference was approach to the problem.  But hate?  EVERYTHING they stand for?  I became disillusioned.  My more liberal friends stopped hanging out with me.  They didn't like the way I challenged the democrat talking points with fact and a differing opinion.

Even if you truly hate Bush, you have to admit that much of the attacking that has gone on has been disrespectful, hate filled, and innapropriate.

I started reading less liberal news and paying more attention to the people who were spreading hate, distrust of government, and anger.  I began to realize that many of these people were either lying or doubly guilty of betraying the people they should be representing.

When Obama became a serious contender, I looked into his past the best I could.  I paid attention to what he said and compared it to what I saw.  I thought Kucinich was interesting - some of his ideas brilliant even.  Then he swore he saw UFO's and he lost me.  Fred Thompson had incredible potential.  Limited government, an ability to properly communicate his ideas - but not desire.  McCain was always an honorable man - I remember many times when he bucked party politics to introduce bills with liberal democrats.  McCain was the lefts favorite senator!

At some point, I became a conservative, though I am still somewhat liberal on certain things.  For instance, I'm not really pro-life - I believe a woman has a choice, but at a certain point she's missed her chance.  If a woman is pregnant for 8 months, I don't think she should be allowed to abort a viable, fully developed fetus - first trimester abortion doesn't bother me one bit.  But things get complicated.  I also think that there should be a way for the government to encourage employers to pay more, keep jobs local, and give back to their communities, but I don't think they should be forced to nor do I think the government has any right to label any profits as windfall without direct, irrefutable evidence - and even then they have no right to seize it - tax abnormal profits at a higher rate maybe, but steal it and redistribute it?  That's what communist countries did with industries after the corrupt communist elite took their cut.

In this election, for me, this boils down to 1) National security 2) non-activist judges and 3) economic plan.

McCain wants to strengthen our military, finish our job in Iraq, and go after Bin Laden.  Obama wants to defund the military, pull out of Iraq immediately, and go after bin laden.

McCain will nominate strict constitutionalist judges.  Obama will elect activist judges who will misuse the position.

McCain's plan puts more money in everyone's pockets and stimulates the economy by encouraging small business.

Obama's plan has massive tax increases on businesses, which will drive up prices, decrease the number of jobs, and encourage companies to move their operations out of the US.

There simply isn't a choice here.  If you want to vote for ideas like hope and change, you are voting for words that mean little.  If you want to vote for ideas like reforming washington, bettering the economy, and staying secure, you have to vote for McCain.

You don't REALLY have to eat your shoe, btw.  But I am still a registered democrat.  I have the card, and it stays in my wallet.  No matter how many times I've been so fed up that I've wanted to tear it up and switch affiliations, I still believe in moderate democratic ideas.  The party doesn't, but I still do.

Barry Goldwater once remarked that after history has run its course, he'd be remembered as a conservative, but by the time anyone bothered to remember him, conservatism and liberalism will have switched platforms.  Well, in one way they have.  The right has moved towards the center and the left has become more polar - which was exactly what Goldwater fought against, the far right.  He hated the religious right.  For a time, they owned the party.  Now the far left liberals own the democrats.  Goldwater was wrong, but to a degree he was dead on.  What switched was the direction of the parties, not their ideology.
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Julie Fern

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2008, 06:16:41 AM »
"democrat" party, eh?  how very republican of you.

know what "concern troll" is?  that you.

DutchessA

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2008, 11:44:09 AM »
truth be told, i've been a Republican all my life up until recently. I think I reached age of reason fairly late, but it's better than never.

I just can't see how you can be a grown up modern person and still support the Republican party.

It's easy--I want the government to be smaller (not larger); I want the deficit to be smaller (not larger); and I want my paycheck to be larger (not smaller).

I don't want to give 50% of my hard-earned money to people who don't have the desire to do for themselves--because under Obama the government will do for them.  The United States is a government of the people, by the people, & for the people--and I mean everyone--not just those who make less than $75k.

servinglife

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Re: Is John McCain's VP selection a disaster?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2008, 03:16:41 AM »
truth be told, i've been a Republican all my life up until recently. I think I reached age of reason fairly late, but it's better than never.

I just can't see how you can be a grown up modern person and still support the Republican party.

It's easy--I want the government to be smaller (not larger); I want the deficit to be smaller (not larger); and I want my paycheck to be larger (not smaller).

I don't want to give 50% of my hard-earned money to people who don't have the desire to do for themselves--because under Obama the government will do for them.  The United States is a government of the people, by the people, & for the people--and I mean everyone--not just those who make less than $75k.

As a fairly conservative (in the libertarian/free market sense) person, I don't feel that the Democrat's policy are worse than the Republicans. 

1) The belief that Republicans are small government is problematic.  Clinton reduced government and balanced the budget.  In the past 30 years, the deficit only became overwhelming troublesome during the 8 years of Reagan and the 8 years of W. Bush.  Unfortunately, recent Republican administrations have shown zero adherence to small market principles.

2) While Republicans still tend to advocate lower taxes and larger pay checks, this hasn't necessarily translated into increased personal financial welfare.  As long as the cost of living increases while consumer confidence diminishes, our slightly greater paychecks do not go as far. 

Therefore viewing this traditional conservative statement: "It's easy--I want the government to be smaller (not larger); I want the deficit to be smaller (not larger); and I want my paycheck to be larger (not smaller)." --> Previous Republican led governments have in actuality promoted larger governments, larger deficits, and diminished standards of living.

I am actually for programs that increase the welfare of the lower-middle to middle class.  The rational is not derived from some bleeding heart ideology, but due to my adherence that the best way to promote large businesses such as an electronics store is NOT to reduce their taxes creating an often times negligible economic stimulus - but to increase the portion of the population that can afford and are willing to buy a television.  Best Buy will be more likely to hire additional employees when they experience a higher volume of costumers - not because they can afford more employees.

So, I believe in small government, lower deficits, and allowing those to rot who refuse to work.  I just don't think modern day conservatives do much to promote this standard.

well said cash.