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Author Topic: Clerkship applications are out...  (Read 2903 times)

"Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"

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Clerkship applications are out...
« on: September 03, 2008, 05:51:47 AM »
Nothing to do now but worry until the 8th...  :-[
I am officially a law school graduate : )

MrMark

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 02:02:24 PM »
What's the cause of worrying until the 8th? 

Team Pam

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 03:51:34 PM »
Nothing to do now but worry until the 8th...  :-[

You're going to do awesome!  Go, Legapp!!  :)
UPenn '10

archival

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 07:17:30 PM »
Is ATL down or something?

Basically, you'll be invited to apply to non-plan judges if you fit their criteria.  Otherwise, you just apply on the plan with the rest of the unanointed. 
But how do you deal with someone who rejects your broad moral principles?
I kill them.

"Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 07:51:08 PM »
So some judges are "on the system" and some aren't?  Do 3Ls just apply to the non-system judges early and hope for the best?  I've never really understood this...

It takes some research to determine what judges are "off plan"--some judges will just post in OSCAR (the central database for federal clerkships) and tell students that they will accept 3L applications at any time.  Other judges are less open about it.  If you go to a school with strong clerkship placement (ie, HY), it seems like the clerkship offices give you more info about who these judges are.  The rest of the schools follow the plan, which, of course, hurts all of their students in relation to the schools that help with off-plan applications.  Most schools will not release your recommendations until it is official application time, for instance, and they tell professors that they should refuse to send LORs separately for us.  It sucks.

The clerkship rat race is particularly awful because of the tight deadlines and judges' preference for on-the-spot hiring.  Plenty of highly successful law students fail to secure a clerkship every year because the following scenario occurs:  Applicant, who attends Stanford, receives an offer to interview with a Second Circuit judge in Manhattan.  She agrees to fly out to be there Thursday afternoon.  The judge has two spots; she is his fourth interview of the day.  Applicant has a fantastic grade-resume combination, so she receives, say, three more interview offers back on the west coast.  Due to travel time, she cannot be in town for these until Friday and Monday.  Applicant arrives for her interview to find that the judge has already hired the first two interviewees.  Then the calls from other chambers begin to trickle in, informing Applicant that they, too, hired the first candidates to arrive.  Applicant never had a chance.
I am officially a law school graduate : )

archival

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 08:39:17 PM »
  Applicant never had a chance.

That sounds so dramatic.

Lots of judges hire alums, so if applicant really wants to clerk she can still do so after a year or two of experience.  http://lawclerkaddict2009.blogspot.com/
But how do you deal with someone who rejects your broad moral principles?
I kill them.

"Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 12:54:14 AM »
Yes, you can go through this process again as a graduate applicant, but think about what that means.  Right now, I can consider clerkships across the nation, because I haven't settled down in any particular region; after a year working you'll have just gotten used to your job, home, and salary--only to leave all three. 
Plus, it would be awful to go through the experience of being denied a clerkship only through chance.

Judge Ambro of the 3rd Circuit has discussed moving to a matching system, much like med school programs use.  Applicants interview with the judges that like them, then both the applicants and judges rank their preferences.  Judges get clerks who really want to be with THEM, and applicants at least have some agency in the post-interview decision-making process (right now, you basically have to accept the first offer you receive, even if you didn't like the judge and have interviews coming up with judges you prefer).
I am officially a law school graduate : )

jacy85

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 09:01:35 AM »
Yes, you can go through this process again as a graduate applicant, but think about what that means.  Right now, I can consider clerkships across the nation, because I haven't settled down in any particular region; after a year working you'll have just gotten used to your job, home, and salary--only to leave all three. 
Plus, it would be awful to go through the experience of being denied a clerkship only through chance.

Judge Ambro of the 3rd Circuit has discussed moving to a matching system, much like med school programs use.  Applicants interview with the judges that like them, then both the applicants and judges rank their preferences.  Judges get clerks who really want to be with THEM, and applicants at least have some agency in the post-interview decision-making process (right now, you basically have to accept the first offer you receive, even if you didn't like the judge and have interviews coming up with judges you prefer).

A couple of thoughts...

First, with applying for a clerkship after you graduate.  This is a tough situation.  On one hand, more and more judges are PREFERRING experienced clerks and will perhaps give some preference to people who have worked for a few years.  On the other hand, the federal government (last I heard) has begun to limit hiring of these types of applicants.  The reason is the pay scale.  You're only allowed to take so big of a pay cut to work for the fed gov't before there enters in the appearance of impropriety (you gave up SO much to work here that you must expect favors or something - seems stupid to me, but that's the way it is).  So if a judge wants to hire 2 experienced clerks instead of 2 new law grads, you're looking at 2 employees at a much higher pay scale than the entry level grads. This is so regardless of whether the miserable former firm attorney would gladly clerk for entry level.  Last I heard, there was talk of limiting a judge to 1 experienced clerk.  So bottom line - even though experience may be preferred, there's probably many fewer spots available.

Second, I think a matching system like med school is an interesting thought.  The clerkship process is a disaster, IMO.  Some judges aren't on the fed system, some are, some say they are but they're really not, some say they are yet will make exceptions, etc.  It's a mess.  Add to this the fact that applicants are expected to accept the first offer given to them means someone could miss an opportunity to clerk for someone stellar in a ridiculously prestigious circuit because their interview with a lesser known judge happened to get scheduled a day earlier.

Thistle

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 01:15:04 PM »
dammit, its been an hour since opening bell and i havent gotten any calls yet!

whats WRONG with those people?   ;)
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

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Re: Clerkship applications are out...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 01:28:58 PM »
dammit, its been an hour since opening bell and i havent gotten any calls yet!

whats WRONG with those people?   ;)

People seem to be having mixed experience. I have a friend who still hasn't heard anything as well... whereas I've gotten four COA calls so far (way more than I expected).

Don't get discouraged, the calls will come!!