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*Real* Employment prospects for your law school

nealric

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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 03:04:31 PM »
The important lesson is that US news is by no means a perfect guide to law schools.


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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 04:01:40 PM »
Hey all, I'm a law student at a public law school in CA, and thought I might share some info. with you guys about what else is out there besides looking at where large law firms hire from.
Some things to think about..
1. Not everyone wants to work in a huge firm where they have to put 60-80 hours in a week (and those that do work for these firms usually quit within a year, the attrition rate is through the roof)
2. Many schools will pay your tuition back in FULL if you make under a certain amount a year for a while (usually working for a public interest firm for about 5 years, you know actually helping people who NEED it).
3. A bill waiting to be signed by the Pres. (which he has said he will sign) was recently passed that forgives up to 90K in student law loans to those who go into public practice for 3 years
4. Most (and by most I mean over 75%) lawyers work in small to midsize firms who feed out of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools, and your pay within that category will reflect what tier school you come out of.

It seems like were either looking at how many people are employed at huge firms from the graphs, or were talking about going to a 3rd or 4th tier school as a means to be a "big fish" in the hope of getting into a top firm. If you donít get into a T-14 school and you choose a bottom tier school by this logic, you are limiting your options.  First off,  something like 80% of all Lawyers work for small to medium size firms, and while the pay rate (and hours) aren't as great as those huge firms (although you can easily make 90k at a med. Sized law firm), it does make a difference if you went to a tier 1 (top 50),2, 3, or 4 school, and your pay in that sector will reflect this difference.  Plus, if you think it doesnít matter where you went to school because you can always work in public practice (you know, if it just so happens you donít graduate top of your class at that tier 4 school you chose, and now no medium or even small sized firm will hire you) think again.  Public practice, while not as selective on class ranking, in many cases, is much more selective in their choices of school than most small to medium sized firms.  I guess I'm just saying that you should go to the best school possible, and when you get accepted to a certain tier, do the research within that tier, you will have many more options.   


The great thing about this chart is that it goes beyond hiring at big law. It also shows the which students were most successful at getting jobs in academia, business, etc. So it is a comprehensive list that is waaay better than US news.

Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2008, 01:23:55 AM »
The important lesson is that US news is by no means a perfect guide to law schools.



Yeah, I totally agree. Most non-T14 schools (and for all I know the t14 schools as well) will fudge their numbers to get that little "boost" in the US news ranking.  I have really only researched CA schools when I was applying, but I think it is (or should be) common knowledge that the numbers the schools report to the US News Report need not be verified . Further, if someone is working at starbucks after graduation that's considered "employment". And, for those who don't find employment, some schools will hire them just to fulfill this category (of course these jobs are mediocre at best). Yup, U.S. news is skewed, but I guess after reading the links previously posted I got the idea that numbers were skewed just because they were misrepresenting the employment opportunities for big law. I think in this matter they are actually not all that skewed.  If you want big law, go to a good law school.  If you want the best overall chances go to the best T1 or T2 school you can get into. Rankings do matter, not between 8 and 10 or 35-50,but the second article made it seem like you should go to a T4 school if youíre smart enough, and I am just saying that there are other things to think about.  But, whoever reads this post will decide for themselves whatís best for them, and if their reading this, will most likely be the type of person to take every opinion (including that of the US news) with a grain of salt. :) 

nealric

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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2008, 06:47:59 PM »
Quote
If you want the best overall chances go to the best T1 or T2 school you can get into. 

But remember, the best school might not be the one that US news ranked the highest. And there are some T3/T4 schools that are better for some people in some cases than some T1/T2 schools.

tome

Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 09:49:29 AM »
It is not better than what USNews provides, just more. Without the USNews info, this info would not even be able to be placed into perspective. Making choices about law schools based only on numbers (incl. either or both of these sets) is plain stupid. They are both useful tools; nothing more, nothing less.


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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2008, 03:09:35 PM »
It is not better than what USNews provides, just more. Without the USNews info, this info would not even be able to be placed into perspective. Making choices about law schools based only on numbers (incl. either or both of these sets) is plain stupid. They are both useful tools; nothing more, nothing less.



Employment prospects should be the most important metric that people are using for law school. People often forget that it is an investment. It is not a prestige badge that allows you to say that "I went to  school so and so." Because the degree would be worthless if you dont have a job after you step off the graduation stage.

With employment stats, US NEWS fails miserably. When they start differentiating between a waitress job and a corporate lawyer, then I will take it seriously.

Kittyl30

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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2008, 03:54:34 PM »
did anyone else pick up the fact this chart was from 2005?

just do well, get in the top 1% of your class, and your fine from almost anywhere :)

okay, so i kid. but seriously, i dont get what people still don't understand.  go to a T10 and be in the top 2/3 of your class.  go to a t11-t14 and be in the top half.  go to a t15-t30 and be in the top 1/3. don't go to anythign below that unless you get significant scholarship money. 

see, wasn't that simple??

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Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2008, 11:01:00 PM »
did anyone else pick up the fact this chart was from 2005?

just do well, get in the top 1% of your class, and your fine from almost anywhere :)

okay, so i kid. but seriously, i dont get what people still don't understand.  go to a T10 and be in the top 2/3 of your class.  go to a t11-t14 and be in the top half.  go to a t15-t30 and be in the top 1/3. don't go to anythign below that unless you get significant scholarship money. 

see, wasn't that simple??

It was from 2005 because most statistical compilations are at least a year behind. Even US news.

I think there is more opportunity below the top us news 30. But the end result means that the vast majority of law students will be assed out.

Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2008, 11:14:30 PM »
did anyone else pick up the fact this chart was from 2005?

just do well, get in the top 1% of your class, and your fine from almost anywhere :)

okay, so i kid. but seriously, i dont get what people still don't understand.  go to a T10 and be in the top 2/3 of your class.  go to a t11-t14 and be in the top half.  go to a t15-t30 and be in the top 1/3. don't go to anythign below that unless you get significant scholarship money. 

see, wasn't that simple??

You vastly underestimate the employers' desire to recruit from these schools first and foremost.  Try 100% at places like Yale and Stanford, and close to 95% at Columbia and Chicago.

Places like t-11-t14 require top 75% or so, or even lower if you can market yourself.  GULC is a little different because of the size.

Re: *Real* Employment prospects for your law school
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2008, 11:16:37 PM »
It is not better than what USNews provides, just more. Without the USNews info, this info would not even be able to be placed into perspective. Making choices about law schools based only on numbers (incl. either or both of these sets) is plain stupid. They are both useful tools; nothing more, nothing less.



Employment prospects should be the most important metric that people are using for law school. People often forget that it is an investment. It is not a prestige badge that allows you to say that "I went to  school so and so." Because the degree would be worthless if you dont have a job after you step off the graduation stage.

With employment stats, US NEWS fails miserably. When they start differentiating between a waitress job and a corporate lawyer, then I will take it seriously.

I agree.  Their employment calculation is a joke, and VERY misleading at some lower-ranked schools.