Another Tier 3/4 question

[TheBreadWinner]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

True.  Some of them went to Cooley.

Subtle anti-Cooley trolling.

Was it subtle?  I need to try harder.

[3Loser]

Just a thought on scholarships, at least large ones (like full-tuition scholarships):

Everyone always says that your odds of being in the top 10% are 10% (meaning there is a 90% chance you will not be in the top 10%). In a purely abstract statistical world this is true. But law schools are not hollow entities that follow the mathematical rules of statistics in a vacuum. They dole out scholarships based on a system--a finely tuned system at some places--sometimes taking great pains to ensure their "best" prospective students receive the scholarships . . . and keep them.

The point being. If you are getting a full-ride, it might be the case that you are more likely to do well. Granted, this is not necessarily true, and I am not stating a fact--just something to think about.

All that said, a T4 school is not the best place to go, as you probably know. If you have a chance at a low T1 v. a T4 full ride, I would probably hitch my horse to the higher-ranked star.

[tony_rocky_horror]

Just a thought on scholarships, at least large ones (like full-tuition scholarships):



The point being. If you are getting a full-ride, it might be the case that you are more likely to do well. Granted, this is not necessarily true, and I am not stating a fact--just something to think about.

Yes, Florida Coastal

[Lindbergh]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many of them did.

I can't help but wonder what somebody did (or didn't) do to put themselves in that position.

1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

[botbot]

1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

...

Don't be stupid.

[Matthies]

1.  They didn't go to a T14, or a T25.

2.  They didn't end up at the top of their class.

Once those two conditions are met, you're often happy to get any kind of job whatsoever.

...

Don't be stupid.

I don't think it can be helped. Rule number 1 of LSD, pull salery numbers out of your ass for schools you don't go to in regions you have never worked then call them facts. 

[kenpostudent]

Everyone always cites employment data from this or that source when exhorting prospective students to "go to a T14 or else". The problem with this horrible, shallow analysis is that employment data for T14 schools is somewhat skewed. Many who attend T14s already have a job upon graduation and they had it from day one. Therefore, a true analysis of the employment prospects of T14 grads would have to eliminate those whose family connections afford them opportunities that the broad cross-section of law grads do not have (assuming the analysis was simply for those students, like me, who do not come from a priveleged background to determine which school to attend). If this type of analysis were done, my HYPOTHESIS is that the T14 schools are marginally better than other schools and not worth the debt load.

[Resident CLS Troll]

For the record, I do not know a single person at my law school (or at any other "T14", for that matter) who got his or her law firm job through personal connections that existed prior to law school.  And yes, I know a large number of people at my school.

And in case anybody wonders why I put "T14" in quotation marks, it's because I think the category is stupid.

[Matthies]

For the record, I do not know a single person at my law school (or at any other "T14", for that matter) who got his or her law firm job through personal connections that existed prior to law school.  And yes, I know a large number of people at my school.

And in case anybody wonders why I put "T14" in quotation marks, it's because I think the category is stupid.

I agree with this, if you have connections there is no reason to to go to a T14 in the first place. Go to your local school live at home, party your ass off and have you parents pay for it. The t14 (which I also agree is stupid) is a magnet for social climbing poor people desperately trying to become socially important. But, thank god, we know who you are and can spot you from your new rich Acura/Lexis/Infinity and know to keep our daughters away from you so you don’t taint our blueblood with your commoners. Nobody from a good family goes to anything less than Yale or Harvard, or they go local. We don’t want our children mixing with the townies at Cornell for god sakes. Sure we will pay you a lot of money to work for the firm our name is on, but we know we never have worry about you moving in next to us in the Hamptons, we give you just enough to taste it but never enough to really be one of us, we invented SoHo for you to feel like you made it so we don't have to mingle with you at the yacht club.

[kenpostudent]

For the record, I do not know a single person at my law school (or at any other "T14", for that matter) who got his or her law firm job through personal connections that existed prior to law school.  And yes, I know a large number of people at my school.

And in case anybody wonders why I put "T14" in quotation marks, it's because I think the category is stupid.

C'mon, you can't tell me that there are not sizeable numbers in each class who go to those schools only because their daddy went there. Please!

If you pay $43k per year to attend an elite law school, that's on you. If mommy and daddy pay for it, great! Yet, if you incur that debt all on your own and gamble with your future, you are either far braver than I. Why let your debt load dictate your job options?