Another Tier 3/4 question

[xferlawstudent]

Advice from a recent low T1 grad:  Go to a T14 if possible otherwise go somewhere offering you $$$ or a cheap in-state school.  I promise. 

So, you're saying either go to a top 14 school, if that doesn't work, go to the least expensive one, even it's a T4?

Yes, kinda.  As a general rule, I would recommend going to either a T14 or the least expensive school.  However, look into the school's reputation in the area you want to work.  Don't go to Cooley or other school with a poor rep under any circumstances.  A state school with in-state tuition in the area you want to work would be ideal.

Also, if you end up at a lower-ranked school, make sure to stay close to where you want to work.  Many attorneys will not have even heard of some T4s that aren't in their state.

[StevePirates]

I took Free T4 and so far so good.  I will say that the decision to go to a T4 should not be made lightly.  If you wind up not grading very well...   You'll have a lot of work to do in order to secure a good job. 

I figured I would do well in law school, so I took a "grade contingent" scholarship.  I did more than well enough to keep my scholarship.  So, don't believe all the doom and gloom you hear.  But, do be realistic about what things mean.  Not all T3/T4s are the same.  So if you're considering that route, make sure you look closely at which schools you're applying to, where they are, how they place, etc etc.  Outside of the Top 50 schools, individual reputation starts counting for a lot more than general ranking.

[Holden Caulfield]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

[Lindbergh]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

[Holden Caulfield]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

[TheBreadWinner]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

True.  Some of them went to Cooley.

[Lindbergh]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many of them did.

[Lindbergh]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

True.  Some of them went to Cooley.

Subtle anti-Cooley trolling.

[Holden Caulfield]

the problem is that a "decent income" working for a small firm is not going to be $70,000 a year in most cases. biglaw pays around $100-160K....the next step down is often to $35,000-50,000 a year. so if you're comfortable earning that salary out of law school, tier 3/4 without loans should be fine.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. The next step down from big law is not making 35-50,000 a year. This may be true for a small firm (10 or less attorneys) because they simply don't have the money for the high salaries. But midsize firms you can easily make between 50-80,000 and still have a life.

I agree with what people are saying for the most part. If you are in a legal market that is not flooded with higher ranked schools AND your school has a good local rep and you want to stay there, take the money and run. Make sure your school has a good rep though. I would not go anywhere that is consistently trashed by others.

I completely agree. I don't know where this rumor started that it was $160,000 or $40,000, but from what I've seen that's very inaccurate. Everyone I know that has gone into non-biglaw private firms has started in the 80's, or 90's.


Take everything you read on this board with a grain of salt.

It's definitely not $160K or $40K.  Some people make under $30K.

You are correct, but just about all of them didn't go to law school.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many of them did.

I can't help but wonder what somebody did (or didn't) do to put themselves in that position.

[StevePirates]

If you don't go to a "name brand" school, then you have to work hard at selling yourself.  After all, why should someone hire you when they can hire the last place finisher at Cornell?  When new clients walk in, they can point at that sheepskin from Cornell and the clients are excited.  They don't know that homeslice was the bottom of the pack.

I think the people who are at the bottom of the earnings list are those who don't "get" this concept.  Work hard in law school, join organizations that boost your visibility, and get out there and earn a job.  For instance, after 1L, why would you work at a restaurant when you could get a volunteer internship at some public interest group and get actual substantive legal experience.  Still, at my school, I know several people who spent their 1L summer working at Cold Stone.  So now, they're playing catch up with the kids from better schools, AND the kids from my school who now have real legal experience. 

So, just from my rough observations, I think that's where a lot of those super-low earning people come from.