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Author Topic: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's  (Read 11862 times)

Kirk Lazarus

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2008, 11:25:38 AM »
Sorry frybread, you are wrong. If you're in lawschool, count the minority students of each race. An Asian friend of mine did where he attended and convinced me of the quota in 2007. Sad that I won't detail more because I'm scared of repercussions, but it's true. If you promise not to quote me, I'll tell you everything and delete it 5 minutes later.

At my law school, seems as if there's not enough Blacks. My class had 12 blacks out of 205 students.
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mbw

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2008, 02:00:58 PM »
Sorry frybread, you are wrong. If you're in lawschool, count the minority students of each race. An Asian friend of mine did where he attended and convinced me of the quota in 2007. Sad that I won't detail more because I'm scared of repercussions, but it's true. If you promise not to quote me, I'll tell you everything and delete it 5 minutes later.

Freak, for the past three years I have been keeping track of the number of NDN students in the top 50 law schools - even have a spreadsheet.  Guess what?  There's no pattern.  Some schools have lots (relatively speaking, that is, which means 5-8) one year, and then none the next.  There are around 400 NDNs who apply to law school every year, and yet only 40 in the T20.  You'd think that if quotas were in place, the numbers would be significantly higher, neh?
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Freak

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2008, 02:18:38 PM »
See now why I didn't give all the info? People quote and then I can't delete....

12/205 = ~5.9% and the overall population is ~12-13% Black which tells me that despite AA blacks are still underrepresented, but it doesn't rule out quotas.

My guess is that schools do use quotas to avoid appearing to discriminate against URMs, but they know that numbers count for more so they admit based on numbers as much as possible.
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EdinTally

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2008, 02:48:49 PM »
sym·pa·thy   
–noun
1.   harmony of or agreement in feeling, as between persons or on the part of one person with respect to another.
2.   the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions.
3.   the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, esp. in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration.


I would say the law has been sympathetic since the dawn of man. So, when a court rules in favor of plaintiff or defendant, they are not in "harmony of or agreement in feeling?"
"Harmony or agreement in feeling"?  Really?  Be prepared to have your idealism take a hit.


Quote
You seem to see AA as some sort of punitive damages. Let me ask you a question: Do you consider paying taxes to fix roads that you don't drive on fair or punitive in nature. You don't. Why not? You don't consider them a punishment because better roads are better for society. Better roads can prevent accidents and damage to your car or save your life. It is without a doubt that residents of poor neighborhoods commit more crime and damage to themselves and others. Lets liken them to a bad road. What can we do to fix this road? AA is a mechanism to try to fix this damaged road. It offers those with less opportunity a chance of success and gives an opportunity to succeed. Its up to them to decide what to do with the opportunity. I understand that you can argue a loss of job opportunity or scholarship or place in school. But I would argue that you have had an enormous amount of opportunities and mechanisms to allow for your success.
Your analogy is flawed.  Fixing the roads would be more analogous to fixing public education in underprivileged neighborhoods.  On average, URM's score 10pts lower on the LSAT (141 v 151).  AA will be hard pressed to solve that problem by itself.  AA is more akin to buying new tires for some cars and not for others because some roads suck.  Fix the road and you won't have to buy new tires.

just some guy

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2008, 03:23:14 PM »
sym·pa·thy   
–noun
1.   harmony of or agreement in feeling, as between persons or on the part of one person with respect to another.
2.   the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions.
3.   the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, esp. in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration.


I would say the law has been sympathetic since the dawn of man. So, when a court rules in favor of plaintiff or defendant, they are not in "harmony of or agreement in feeling?"
"Harmony or agreement in feeling"?  Really?  Be prepared to have your idealism take a hit.


Quote
You seem to see AA as some sort of punitive damages. Let me ask you a question: Do you consider paying taxes to fix roads that you don't drive on fair or punitive in nature. You don't. Why not? You don't consider them a punishment because better roads are better for society. Better roads can prevent accidents and damage to your car or save your life. It is without a doubt that residents of poor neighborhoods commit more crime and damage to themselves and others. Lets liken them to a bad road. What can we do to fix this road? AA is a mechanism to try to fix this damaged road. It offers those with less opportunity a chance of success and gives an opportunity to succeed. Its up to them to decide what to do with the opportunity. I understand that you can argue a loss of job opportunity or scholarship or place in school. But I would argue that you have had an enormous amount of opportunities and mechanisms to allow for your success.
Your analogy is flawed.  Fixing the roads would be more analogous to fixing public education in underprivileged neighborhoods.  On average, URM's score 10pts lower on the LSAT (141 v 151).  AA will be hard pressed to solve that problem by itself.  AA is more akin to buying new tires for some cars and not for others because some roads suck.  Fix the road and you won't have to buy new tires.

Dear NoobEdin Tally:

Please refrain from using analogies that make sense. We don't make sense when discussing AA on this board. From now on limit your posts concerning this topic to starry eyed idealism unencumbered by experience, thinly veiled racism, and random anecdotal evidence.

Sincerely,

just some guy
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Freak

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2008, 03:55:53 PM »
Sorry frybread, you are wrong. If you're in lawschool, count the minority students of each race. An Asian friend of mine did where he attended and convinced me of the quota in 2007. Sad that I won't detail more because I'm scared of repercussions, but it's true. If you promise not to quote me, I'll tell you everything and delete it 5 minutes later.

Freak, for the past three years I have been keeping track of the number of NDN students in the top 50 law schools - even have a spreadsheet.  Guess what?  There's no pattern.  Some schools have lots (relatively speaking, that is, which means 5-8) one year, and then none the next.  There are around 400 NDNs who apply to law school every year, and yet only 40 in the T20.  You'd think that if quotas were in place, the numbers would be significantly higher, neh?

NDNs?
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mbw

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2008, 07:21:09 PM »
Say it out loud, Freak.  Or use Google.  Or look at my avatar.
I'm in a lynch mob?  I had no idea.  This is really worrying; I really don't have time for another extra-curricular activity.

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dsetterl

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2008, 01:32:52 PM »
"Harmony or agreement in feeling"?  Really?  Be prepared to have your idealism take a hit.

Take a hit from what? I don't think it is too idealistic at all. I think that good government is sympathetic to its people in all branches. You haven't said anything constructive at all. Just "Really." That just makes me think you are nontrad and think you have had more life "experience." No need to be condescending. I would like to hear your version.



Your analogy is flawed.  Fixing the roads would be more analogous to fixing public education in underprivileged neighborhoods.  On average, URM's score 10pts lower on the LSAT (141 v 151).  AA will be hard pressed to solve that problem by itself.  AA is more akin to buying new tires for some cars and not for others because some roads suck.  Fix the road and you won't have to buy new tires.

It is flawed.  I was more just replying to Freak when he complained he shouldn't have to spend tax dollars on it. I was just saying that tax dollars are used for lots of things you never use and should we take up arms against all those things as well. I guess I got off on a silly tangent.

As far of anecdotal evidence, I do not think I have used any of that. Geez you guys sounds bitter.

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2008, 01:52:31 PM »
All I'm saying is, when are us Jews gonna get a fair shake at this whole law thing? ;D

just some guy

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Re: AA -- Bad for Everyone, Except Unqualified URM's
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2008, 02:39:30 PM »
Say it out loud, Freak.   Or use Google.  Or look at my avatar.

Saved.Gotta be a way to use that out of context sooner or later.
I have courted the fire for a very long time, and many sparks have flown in the past, but [this post] speaks, finally, the language of the flame itself.
with apologies to Keith Jarret