Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: University of San Diego..part time  (Read 2189 times)

lawnecon

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 01:24:16 PM »
NOTE: the minimum I am willing to accept on my first real law job would be 70k


hahahahahahaahahahahahahahaah a.  no offense, but that is silly.   

also to the person who quoted average starting salaries...just wanted to clear that up for those of us who are interested in working in the public sector.

average starting salary for an assistant DA is 45,769.  in san diego it is more like 65,000.  where i live (dallas) it is 56,000.

average starting salary for a public defender is 44,660.



Yeah, DA salaries can fluctuate considerably. I think in New York state, it doesn't go much lower than $50k and in the city proper, it's more like $60k plus (with bar results). In PA, the counties tend to pay around $40k whereas Philly pays closer toe $60k. MA is pretty bad with starting salaries under $40k in almost every county.

$44k (Dallas figure) is pretty good for a public defender! Of course, in the big cities, I'm sure you earn it.
Villanova Law School Class of '09

"I don't believe in nothing, no more - I'm going to law school!" Jimbo Jones (The Simpsons)

Lindbergh

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4358
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 01:18:23 PM »
Just to note, even with the bimodal distribution, you're far more likely to be in the $50-$60K group (and under) than in the Biglaw/$100K+ group, especially from a T2 school.  Most Biglaw jobs go to T1 grads, with a huge chunk going to the T25, especially the T14.  To have any shot at a Biglaw ($100K+) job coming from a T2, you'll usually have to be near the top of your class, law review, etc. 

Not saying you shouldn't go to law school, you just need more realistic salary expectations if you do.

Personally, I'd take USD over UP, since the $$ isn't that great from UP, and the USD market is clearly stronger, with USD the top dog there.  USD is also an up & coming school, and SD is a growing city, as noted.  And going part time, you could probably clerk with a firm after your first year, which would both keep costs down and help guarantee you a job when you graduate.  (You could either stay with the firm, or leverage your work experience.)

Long term, you can always work hard and make more down the road, even if you're not law review, and don't make Biglaw right out (which is still a possibility, of course).  Just don't expect to make a ton right out of school, because that's never guaranteed, except maybe (to some extent) at the T14.

StevePirates

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
    • JollyLawger
    • Email
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 06:26:37 PM »
Personally, I'd take USD over UP, since the $$ isn't that great from UP, and the USD market is clearly stronger, with USD the top dog there.  USD is also an up & coming school, and SD is a growing city, as noted.  And going part time, you could probably clerk with a firm after your first year, which would both keep costs down and help guarantee you a job when you graduate.  (You could either stay with the firm, or leverage your work experience.)



While USD is the big dog in San Diego, its ranking has gone down in recent years from the sixties to the eighties.  Not very up and coming to me.  Still, I'd pick USD over UP any day.

SCK2008

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 06:54:17 PM »
Personally, I'd take USD over UP, since the $$ isn't that great from UP, and the USD market is clearly stronger, with USD the top dog there.  USD is also an up & coming school, and SD is a growing city, as noted.  And going part time, you could probably clerk with a firm after your first year, which would both keep costs down and help guarantee you a job when you graduate.  (You could either stay with the firm, or leverage your work experience.)



While USD is the big dog in San Diego, its ranking has gone down in recent years from the sixties to the eighties.  Not very up and coming to me.  Still, I'd pick USD over UP any day.

This is why rankings are so funny though- to the casual observer anyways (me).  B/c though SD has dropped 20 or so spaces in the last few years and Pepperdine has jumped 20 or so in that same period of time (they've just about switched places) I still believe folks are much better off at USD than P-dine (which is still considered to be the 4th best school in LA-by the people I've talked to anyways...)

Or am I reading it wrong here?  (of course if one is dead set on working in LA rather than SD then P-dine is probably the correct choice...)


Honorable Mention/All-Valley Tournament

Lindbergh

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4358
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 11:20:57 PM »
Personally, I'd take USD over UP, since the $$ isn't that great from UP, and the USD market is clearly stronger, with USD the top dog there.  USD is also an up & coming school, and SD is a growing city, as noted.  And going part time, you could probably clerk with a firm after your first year, which would both keep costs down and help guarantee you a job when you graduate.  (You could either stay with the firm, or leverage your work experience.)



While USD is the big dog in San Diego, its ranking has gone down in recent years from the sixties to the eighties.  Not very up and coming to me.  Still, I'd pick USD over UP any day.

Minor rankings fluctuations over a couple years are meaningless for a school like USD, and given where it's ranked, 20 points is in fact minor.  You have to look at the broader picture, which is that top professors are moving there in increasing numbers as USD grows and becomes a more desirable destination, especially for professors nearing retirement.  This has improved their overall reputation, and student numbers have also risen accordingly. 

I would think that over the last decade or two, USD has in fact risen significantly in the rankings, and will be back in the 60's before long, if not higher.  As long as USD is an up-and-coming city, USD will be an up-and-coming school.

StevePirates

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
    • JollyLawger
    • Email
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2008, 11:09:01 AM »

Minor rankings fluctuations over a couple years are meaningless for a school like USD

I would think that over the last decade or two, USD has in fact risen significantly in the rankings, and will be back in the 60's before long, if not higher.

Your first point I absolutely agree with.  Being the big dog in a growing market means that the national rankings and national placement isn't as important as it is for a school that is a secondary school in a particular market.

Your second point (USD will be back in the 60s in no time and is an up n' comer because....) I disagree with.  USD is a great school, no knocks on it.  But it's going to have to regain momentum in an increasingly competitive market.  New schools opening up, more lower ranked schools making "programming" decisions designed to go up the ranks, a down economy...  USD's successes aren't measured in a vacuum.  Could they make the 60's or higher?  Sure, it's a good school.  Does that guarantee they will?  Nope.   I hope USD does.  It would be great to have a true top tier school in the city.  I think it would bring more top caliber students, and professors and have a positive effect on the local market which should be a tide that lifts all boats so to speak. 

I just don't buy the "up n' coming" line.  The "well-established best school in the region" line... that one I buy.

Tiny Sedan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 11:08:35 PM »
Irvine Law is going to have a vacuum effect on USD talent, I can pretty well bet.

StevePirates

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
    • JollyLawger
    • Email
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2008, 02:57:35 AM »
Irvine Law is going to have a vacuum effect on USD talent, I can pretty well bet.

I don't know.  I mean, it certainly will effect ALL of Southern California, but San Diego is pretty insulated from Irvine.     I can't really imagine a lot of East Coasters looking for the So Cal experience living in Irvine.

My guess is that it will primarily attract local talent for a while.  I think it's more likely to have a larger impact on Chapman, Pepperdine and Loyola.

USD should be fine.  Irvine might hamper the climb back to the 60's.  But, I don't think it will actually hurt the school itself.  Now, if UCSD ever got around to having a law school... that would be a whole new ball game.

Lindbergh

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4358
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2008, 04:12:25 AM »

Minor rankings fluctuations over a couple years are meaningless for a school like USD

I would think that over the last decade or two, USD has in fact risen significantly in the rankings, and will be back in the 60's before long, if not higher.

Your first point I absolutely agree with.  Being the big dog in a growing market means that the national rankings and national placement isn't as important as it is for a school that is a secondary school in a particular market.

Your second point (USD will be back in the 60s in no time and is an up n' comer because....) I disagree with.  USD is a great school, no knocks on it.  But it's going to have to regain momentum in an increasingly competitive market.  New schools opening up, more lower ranked schools making "programming" decisions designed to go up the ranks, a down economy...  USD's successes aren't measured in a vacuum. 

It is in fact an up-and-coming school, for the reasons noted.  San Diego is growing, and as it does, USD will continue to rise.  New schools will remain in the 4th tier for the forseeable future, and other schools won't have the faculty appeal of San Diego.  The down economy hurts everyone, and probably hurts the sunbelt less than other areas.  I don't know when it will be back in the 60's, but I suspect sooner rather than later.


Could they make the 60's or higher?  Sure, it's a good school.  Does that guarantee they will?  Nope.   I hope USD does.  It would be great to have a true top tier school in the city.  I think it would bring more top caliber students, and professors and have a positive effect on the local market which should be a tide that lifts all boats so to speak. 

I just don't buy the "up n' coming" line.  The "well-established best school in the region" line... that one I buy.

There's never any guarantees, but bottom line, San Diego is a growing city with a great deal of appeal to many people, especially professors nearing retirement.  So it's already bringing in top profs and stronger students, which is why it is an up-and-coming school. 

If someone can show it was ranked higher 10 or 20 years ago, though, I'll retract this statement. 

Einstein

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
    • View Profile
Re: University of San Diego..part time
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2008, 09:08:13 PM »
Just one example of a top notch professor that decided on USD, in part, because of the "retirement" factor. 

Frank Partnoy
http://www.sandiego.edu/usdlaw/faculty/facprofiles/partnoyf.php

He teaches corporations as well as a deals class and possibly others. 

I just got through reading his book "F.I.A.S.C.O.: Blood in the Water on Wall Street"
http://www.amazon.com/F-I-S-C-O-Blood-Water-Street/dp/0393046222

The book is pretty much his autobiography while in investment banking. When the book was released it sold out a couple of times.

He even gave testimony on Enron before the United States Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs: http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/012402partnoy.htm

He even answers questions on the Financial times website: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/cbca697e-4694-11dc-a3be-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=d355f29c-d238-11db-a7c0-000b5df10621.html

Frank went to Yale law and worked for Morgan Stanley as an investment banker.  He was a member of their Derivative Products Group. While Frank was working for the DPG group they were the most profitable group on the planet. They brought in over $1 billion dollars over the course of 2 years.  He then worked in DC doing corporate law.  He "retired" in San Diego and now teaches at USD.

He was co-recipient of the 1999 Thorsnes Prize for Excellence in Teaching and is the 2004 Herzog Endowed Scholar.

Just one example of a top notch prof. flocking to the most beautiful city with the most temperate sunny weather.  Frank actually said in his book that he was attracted to San Diego because of these things.

Quote directly from the book: "Meanwhile, I was settling in to a quiet routine, teaching a few dozen law students at the University of San Diego, sharpening my golf game, and preparing several decades of comfortable, easy living tucked away in a sunny, seventy degree where-is-he-now file."

USD will continue to attract such top talent until UCSD opens a law school, which isn't in the foreseeable future. 
Practice LSAT: 147(d), 150, 151,143,152, 156,161,163,161,160,157,163,158,162

University of San Diego School of Law!