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Author Topic: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil  (Read 19121 times)

T. Durden

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2008, 08:51:09 AM »
a pretty funny online rant re bar/bri questions (and bar questions generally):

http://onehotmess.blogspot.com/2008/06/bar-humor.html

"Bar humor

I just got this in an email from a dear friend who is right now in the depths of hell, aka studying for the Bar exam. If you have already taken the bar, this will bring back memories. For those of you still studying, hang in there. You WILL pass! For those of you who have not suffered through the Bar exam, find a lawyer friend and share this with them. They will laugh their butts off.

1. People who don't record their deeds:
Hey. @#!* face. That's a nice deed you got there. Went ahead andbought Stankacre, didya? That's awesome. Owning property is a signof real maturity. Now, why don't you do us all a f-ing favor, andgo record the f-ing deed.Right. f-ing. Now. Don't put it in a goddamn drawer. Don't go off to India for 20 years. Don't leave the deed in your will for dear cousin Victorianox. Get your fat lazy ass down to the records office, and record it before I burn your goddamn house down.

2: Wily property sellers:
Here is a suggestion to those Bill of Rights violatin' petty thug assclowns, the Police. How about you go down to Doucheacre, and arrest the son of a female dog who sells the same house to 15 different people, over and over. I'm sick of this guy getting away every time he pullsthis *&^%, and I'm left to sort out the f-ing pieces.

3: "Known" arsonists:
Here's a little tip to all the cretins that keep hiring "known"arsonists to burn down their cheating girlfriend's house. Why is it, do you think, that he is a known arsonist, you dipshit? He's known because he has been f-ing caught before. You don't know who the good arsonists are, do you! Because they have their *&^% together. But no, you had to go hire Dusseldorf, or Durango, or whatever D word your fuckwit moron arsonist is named, and now he's gone and burned thewrong house, and left me with a BAR question.

4: People who back out of conspiracies:
Why don't you just stick with it and save us all some trouble, you female private part.

5. Power companies that leave an electric wire live to deter copper theft:
While I appreciate your effort to rid the world of thieves stupid enough to try and steal raw copper wiring that's f-ing humming and has blue arcs dancing on it, it's just gonna bite you in the ass inthe end. Just let the copper go.

6. Fertile Octogenarians:
I think I speak for all of us when I say...
...Burn the witch!
Burn her!
And don't use a "known" arsonist!

7. People who use anything more complicated than Fee Simple Absolute in a will:
Hey, old man. Either give Horatio your f-ing interest in Scroteacre, or don't, alright? Don't condition it on him growing a mustache, or learning to play the calliope, or winning "Dancing withthe Stars." Don't grant a springing executive interest to Zenobia if she manages to graduate from Ninja academy. Stop making my life more complicated than it needs to be, you Narcissistic old twat, and stop trying to control your property fromthe grave in a vain attempt to make up for your feebleness in life.

8. House Painters:
Just paint the f-ing house yourself, Paulson.Trust me on this one. It's not worth it.

9. Bank Mortgages:
Hi there, First National Bank of South Calizonachussettsas. I don't mean to tell you how to run your business, but allow me to impart abit of sage wisdom.
When someone :
1) named Defaultina McBankrupstein,
2) is taking out her 17th mortgage with you,
3) on a place called Mushacre
4) so she can buy a new hat,
.do NOT f-ing come crying to me when the inevitable judicial foreclosure sale nets $34, a button, and some lint, all of which are devoured by the banks that are 20 miles ahead of you in creditor line. And do not ask me whether you are a junior or senior mortgagor, or whether you debt is secured, or some other bull I don'tunderstand, because the answer is always the same.
D) You are screwed. Take it like a man.

10. Wanna-be Burglars:
I am sick to death of these slackjawed melon-heads deciding at 2 a.m.that they need to borrow their neighbors wrench, and are sure he"won't mind" if they saunter on over there in the middle of the night,crowbar the garage open, smash open his tool chest, and "borrow it."And then always the inevitable f-ing:
Did he commit Larceny/Burglary/Robbery?????? Ohhhhh, no intent!

Let him go, boys. Let the man go. So I can throw the wrench right at his goddamn teeth. Good thing when we are really in practice we will have these IntentGoggles (c), that can magically tell us, despite every bit of evidenceto the contrary, this jackass really didn't intend to commit a crime.He genuinely thought that breaking into your neighbor's house,stealing his car, taking a *&^% on his pool table, and sleeping withhis wife were all part of the social covenants between good neighbors"

jacy85

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2008, 09:52:27 AM »
Thanks for that, T. Durden.  It's fabulous!  :D :D

uh huh.

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2008, 10:43:59 AM »
Oh, jacy, I wish I had seen this thread yesterday! I agree completely about the BarBri essays - they have been making me feel grossly inadequate for the past month. I really should go check out NY's model answers to see what I'm up against. Frankly, I'm terrified for the NY day - there is just so much stuff to know!

And yes - PMBR questions are "harder" than BarBri, but I,too score better on PMBR. As a good friend of mine said, BarBri questions are vague and weird, while PMBR's are just better constructed.

StrictlyLiable

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2008, 11:57:20 AM »
Thanks for the tip, Jacy. Like you I have felt woefully inadequate on the essays. Though structurally they are getting better, my grasp for all the minutia is very lacking. I went to PA's site, like you said, and read the sample answers. To my astonishment, those model answers that received the highest scores were not much better than mine. No rule numers, no case names, sometimes not even a fully correct statement of the law. Finallhy most of the answers were either one long paragraph or 2-3 short three sentence parapgraphs.

I feel much better now.

PSUDSL08

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2008, 01:56:36 PM »
Don't you guys have model student answers in the state specific essay testing books? For PA, we have an outline of topics and fine points, a model examiner answer which resembles something you'd complete if you had time to spend an hour or two researching the issue on lexus, and a student answer which someone correctly stated is brief with no case numbers/names and an imperfect statement of the law. Basically I just look to the examiner answer to get the finer points of law and some of the analysis then compare what I had with the model student answer.

I definitely would not sweat it if your answer does not even closely resemble the model examiner answers. My friend taking CA lectures via the ipod had a lecturer who spoke of a judge he knew who took the VA bar. One of the questions asked him about this VA commission that the judge never heard of, asking about its purposes, number of members, etc. The judge basically stated on the exam that he had never heard of the commission, but assumed it did X, Y, and Z based upon its name. Then he assumed that the number of judges on the commission had to be somewhere between 3-7 judges because 2 or less seemed like too few and more than 7 seemed excessive. Then he stated that it was likely that there was an odd number of judges because they would need some way to break a tie. He ultimately concluded that there were 5 judges (real answer was 7 I believe). Apparently, he received 70% of the possible points for this question solely on the basis that the examiners liked the reasoning that led him to the answer although he knew nothing whatsoever about this commission.


jacy85

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2008, 03:00:09 PM »
Don't you guys have model student answers in the state specific essay testing books? For PA, we have an outline of topics and fine points, a model examiner answer which resembles something you'd complete if you had time to spend an hour or two researching the issue on lexus, and a student answer which someone correctly stated is brief with no case numbers/names and an imperfect statement of the law. Basically I just look to the examiner answer to get the finer points of law and some of the analysis then compare what I had with the model student answer.


Yes, I do have the model answers in the state specific essay book.  And yes, I knew that real bar examinees wouldn't produce stuff with case names and citations, and I also knew that a real bar examinee wouldn't produce something quite as complete as the "model." 

What I didn't know was just how far away from Bar/Bri's "model" answer the real answers are.  Nor did I realize just how many people got the law completely wrong.  I figured the top answers would be the ones to totally nail the law.  But every single high scoring sample answer on the GA bar admissions website completely missed the law in at least one subpart.

And even though I knew a lot of it, it's easy to forget when you're comparing your woefully inadequate answers to Bar/Bri's over the top answers.

unlvcrjchick

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2008, 08:57:58 PM »
Hmm, if the real passing answers are that bad, than I'll nail the bar exam, since in my Essay Advantage class, I scored a few passing answers (score of 75), with the others being in the mid-to-upper 60's. Regarding the ones that were passing, they didn't look anything like the model answers, which is why I agree with everyone here: the BarBri model answers are ridiculously detailed.  I even asked my local BarBri rep who writes them, and finally she admitted that their staff attorneys write them.  An even more telling statement on her part: the staff attorneys don't write the model answers in the one-hour time limit that we have in Nevada.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they spent hours on some of those answers! 

Also, just wondering if anyone here took the simulated MBE the other day?  Hopefully everyone did well.  I'm shocked that I did as well as I did (137 correct out of 200), especially since I get most of the PMBR questions wrong.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's just luck or something, considering that I felt like utter sh*t during the test:  it's really difficult to concentrate like that for 6 hours.

I have to keep repeating to myself:  "I WILL get through this, I WILL get through this..."

sarbinson

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2008, 10:37:50 PM »
I am OUTRAGED by the Illinois essay book.  Many, if not most, of the answers are way too long and completely unresponsive to the question (or at least 90% of the answer is unresponsive).  I feel like most of these questions could be answered with a few sentences, and with 30 minutes, they'd better be.  One of the family law questions asks if spousal maintenance is appropriate and they list all SEVEN criteria in a tidy little box!  RIDICULOUS.  How about something that can realistically be done in 30 minutes.  Does anybody know if IL posts sample answers that received a 5 anywhere?  My guess is probably not, since they just started doing MEE in 2007 and that's 6 of the 9 essays. 

jacy85

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2008, 12:08:14 PM »
I just can't get away from Bar/Bri.  A recurring question subject is religions that handle poisonous snakes in rites.

And what do I find in the news this morning?  http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/13/snake.bust.ap/index.html

CoxlessPair

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Re: Another reason why Bar/Bri is the devil
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2008, 04:11:39 PM »
I am OUTRAGED by the Illinois essay book.  Many, if not most, of the answers are way too long and completely unresponsive to the question (or at least 90% of the answer is unresponsive).  I feel like most of these questions could be answered with a few sentences, and with 30 minutes, they'd better be.  One of the family law questions asks if spousal maintenance is appropriate and they list all SEVEN criteria in a tidy little box!  RIDICULOUS.  How about something that can realistically be done in 30 minutes.  Does anybody know if IL posts sample answers that received a 5 anywhere?  My guess is probably not, since they just started doing MEE in 2007 and that's 6 of the 9 essays. 

I'm sitting for Illinois as well and am similarly pissed off. I was working through an Illinois Civ Pro question that had a model answer that was purely a FRCP answer (International Shoe analysis). It was cited the Federal Rules and not an ounce of Illinois law.

I also think the model answer grading is a *&^% show.
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