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Author Topic: Fifth Tier Toilet  (Read 9271 times)

vap

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2008, 02:17:57 PM »
I disagree.

Less schools = smaller supply of legal services = higher fees from clients = better for lawyers' pockets.
More schools = larger supply of legal services = lower fees from clients = better for the world.

I think the biggest problem is that lawyers are greedy, the probable reason being that law school is expensive.  Although, there are a lot of people with a sense of entitlement even before they go to law school (look at this board).

Is it really greedy to have a desire to pay off the ridiculous student loans, the need for which is created by the similarly ridiculous tuition costs?

Greed by any motive is still greed.

The key issue: most people posting in this thread are opposed to more law schools because of the devaluing of the Juris Doctor, not because of the decrease in competency of graduates.  These same people are likely to oppose prepaid legal services and certification for paralegals to provide basic services.

I also don't see how having more schools helps lower legal costs when so many new grads simply can't find work.  It's hard to contribute to lower legal costs when you're not working as a lawyer because no one will hire you thanks to a degree from a school with a poor reputation.  And please don't come back and say, "we can all be solo practitioners!"  It can be hard to make money at any new business at first, especially with no experience, and when you've got serious student loan debt weighing you down, it's not really a viable option for many, many of these grads with no options.

I don't think job prospects are as bleak as you suggst, and plenty of new solos save on overhead by working from home, but in the end you might be right.  If lawyers are unwilling to work for the price the market demands, then legal services will not decrease in cost.  So, what do you think happens to all the jobless JDs?

nealric

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2008, 02:25:12 PM »
Quote
These same people are likely to oppose prepaid legal services 

Although I do not oppose prepaid legal services in principle, I do in practice.

My (albeit) limited experience with prepaid legal services has been:

#1. They are aggressively sold by shady companies operating as multi-level marketing scams
#2. They are set up in such a way that the quality of the legal advice one gets when claiming those pre-paid legal services is bottom of the barrel.
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vap

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2008, 11:37:16 PM »
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These same people are likely to oppose prepaid legal services 
#2. They are set up in such a way that the quality of the legal advice one gets when claiming those pre-paid legal services is bottom of the barrel.

This would be my guess.  Plus, I doubt having "legal insurance" is really worth it for most people.  Just like any insurance company, in the long run customers pay more than they would typically pay so that middlemen get paid.

Of course, this is a good argument to have: whether X harms the client.

OConnorScribe

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2008, 12:39:26 PM »
Can anyone speak to something I've heard through the grapevine: That if you are upfront and honest with your lenders and propose an arrangement in which you give them a monthly amount that you can afford, that most will be flexible? The only people who default, according to this logic, are the ones who stay silent and hide out.

This obviously isn't the preferred route -- I'm 33 now and would be paying 'em back the rest of my natural-born life supposing I do public-interest or small-firm work.  But I'm one of those people who is the most exposed -- at a T3 not at the top of the class after 1L with $160-70K looming. Granted, my T3 is one of those that is the only game in town and is also just north of New York, but my risk level remains high. I had a rough few years prior to attending school (layoffs, family death, health issues, credit woes), so in the grand scheme of things, I've been through worse. Plus, I'm a champion networking with the gift of gab. But a $1,200+ payment on a 360-month repayment schedule (or nearly $2,000 on a 10-year schedule -- yeah, right!!) is still pretty damn daunting.

Well, hey, at least I'm not at one of the toilets that inspired this thread. :-)   
Pace '10

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2008, 02:26:02 PM »
If you have Direct Loans through the federal govt. I think you stand a better chance of "working out a deal". There is an income based repayment plan.

If you have private loans or federal FFELP loans through a private company or bank, I would not expect very much leeway at all. Basically you will probably get a prescribed economic hardship deferment or some type of forbearance if you meet their requirements, otherwise you are stuck paying. And you'd better believe they will try to tack on fees if you do some sort of "roll your own" repayment plan. Even if they are totally willing to work with you (which I highly doubt given the current status of these lenders and widely documented shady practices) the interest is going to balloon out of control b/c of capitalization.

I suppose your last ditch option is a student consolidation loan, but be very careful with these. Any repayment terms or pre-set interest rates you had before will probably be reset to the consolidation company's rates and terms, which are not always very favorable.

If your credit isn't in order, try to fix it now b/c otherwise you may have trouble getting a bar study loan.

OConnorScribe

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2008, 02:42:36 PM »
My loans are all federal for a lot of the reasons you mentioned ... keeps the weighted average interest rate to 7.3% (or whatever it is) and potentially offers more flexibility in repayment. Also, I don't trust private lenders; even though my credit is rebuilt (on track for a 750 FICO score by graduation), I've learned enough and dealt with enough to know those bastards are dirty.   

Believe me, I've heard horror stories about consolidators, so I'll definitely be mindful as I consider that option -- which is likely, as I anticipate needing a longer repayment cycle.

Is there anyone on here who is *actively* paying down a heavy debt load that can advise?
Pace '10

OConnorScribe

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2008, 02:43:15 PM »
My loans are all federal for a lot of the reasons you mentioned ... keeps the weighted average interest rate to 7.3% (or whatever it is) and potentially offers more flexibility in repayment. Also, I don't trust private lenders; even though my credit is rebuilt (on track for a 750 FICO score by graduation), I've learned enough and dealt with enough to know those bastards are dirty.   

Believe me, I've heard horror stories about consolidators, so I'll definitely be mindful as I consider that option -- which is likely, as I anticipate needing a longer repayment cycle.

Is there anyone on here who is *actively* paying down a heavy debt load that can advise?
Pace '10

big - fat - box

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2008, 03:33:05 PM »
O'Connor - to clarify, are your loans Federal Direct Loans or are they Federal FFELP loans? That can make a difference.

I don't think people paying down debt are going to be hanging around the board. Your best bet would probably be to get a list of alums from career services that are doing jobs that don't pay well to start - like solo practitioners.

OConnorScribe

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Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2008, 11:53:03 AM »
They're Direct Loans.

Will tap into alumni ... you're probably right about the worker bees in debt not wanting to spend much time on these boards. :-)

Thank you.
Pace '10