Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Fifth Tier Toilet  (Read 9416 times)

OConnorScribe

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2008, 06:54:30 PM »
Matthies has a good point. I'll be interested to see how many of my peers female dog about the lack of OCI opportunities -- when we're just 25 miles north of Grand Central, 8 miles from Yonkers and three blocks away from the county courthouse and the row with all of the respected regional firms. :-)
Pace '10

NATUREBOY

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2008, 01:01:47 AM »
Anyone who passes the bar can go out and hang up a shingle.
This is what most law students fail to realize.  The vast majority of lawyers are self-employed.

CoxlessPair

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 770
    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2008, 01:15:16 AM »
Anyone who passes the bar can go out and hang up a shingle.
This is what most law students fail to realize.  The vast majority of lawyers are self-employed.

Show me a source with that
Air Force JAG Corps

nealric

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2261
  • a.k.a. Miguel Sanchez
    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2008, 11:25:03 AM »
Quote
Yea, me. The jobs ARE out there, the fact that most law stundents suck at finding them unless them come down the OCI pike does not seem to me to be the schools fault. I go to a law school, I think of my schools job as teaching me the law, I think of its as my job to find myself a job. I've never relyed on my school to do that, and suprisingly I've had little problem finding jobs. There are out there people, you just have to go looking for them when you don't go to a school where they come looking for you. People get law jobs even from Cooley, it just takes more work on the students part when the school rank sucks ass. I'm sure as not going to give my school credit when I land a job I worked hard to get, nither am I going to blame them if I get nothing from OCI, geting me a job is not the primary role of a school. Lack of personal responsebilty on the part of the students is what I think is the biggest reason job rates suck out of these schools, if you go in thinking your going to get a high paying job though OCI like the Yale kids from a T4 school and do nothing to look on your own, thats the students fault. Carear services, even at my T2, will tell you the single best way to find the best jobs is networking. But still 90% of my clamssamtes wont do it. Whose fault is that the schools or the students?


If there are only jobs available for 50% of the class and 50% of the class networks, it is true that those 50% would likely be employed. However, if 100% networks, there would still be jobs available for only 50% of the class. Your advice is spot on for an individual law student but does not address the greater problem of too few jobs for too many graduates.
Georgetown Law Graduate

Chief justice Earl Warren wasn't a stripper!
Now who's being naive?

baileypicks24

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 220
  • You have food, a roof, and security. Shut up.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2008, 11:37:11 AM »
I do.  Not everyone goes to law school because of economic reasons.  Some people just want to be lawyers.  Anyone who passes the bar can go out and hang up a shingle.

Sure! Because you know, starting a brand new business which requires tens of thousands of dollars in start-up capital, plus the fact that you have a zero client base, plus the $150k in loans you have to start paying back immediately, is a piece of cake! Yeah, you're right, ANYBODY can just go out and hang a shingle.

 ::) ::) ::) ::)

Matthies

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 5988
    • View Profile
    • Tell me where you are going to school and you get a cat!
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2008, 11:59:19 AM »
Quote
Yea, me. The jobs ARE out there, the fact that most law stundents suck at finding them unless them come down the OCI pike does not seem to me to be the schools fault. I go to a law school, I think of my schools job as teaching me the law, I think of its as my job to find myself a job. I've never relyed on my school to do that, and suprisingly I've had little problem finding jobs. There are out there people, you just have to go looking for them when you don't go to a school where they come looking for you. People get law jobs even from Cooley, it just takes more work on the students part when the school rank sucks ass. I'm sure as not going to give my school credit when I land a job I worked hard to get, nither am I going to blame them if I get nothing from OCI, geting me a job is not the primary role of a school. Lack of personal responsebilty on the part of the students is what I think is the biggest reason job rates suck out of these schools, if you go in thinking your going to get a high paying job though OCI like the Yale kids from a T4 school and do nothing to look on your own, thats the students fault. Carear services, even at my T2, will tell you the single best way to find the best jobs is networking. But still 90% of my clamssamtes wont do it. Whose fault is that the schools or the students?


If there are only jobs available for 50% of the class and 50% of the class networks, it is true that those 50% would likely be employed. However, if 100% networks, there would still be jobs available for only 50% of the class. Your advice is spot on for an individual law student but does not address the greater problem of too few jobs for too many graduates.

Don't go to school in DC then. :P There are places where there are enough jobs for the graduates. Seriously I don't know anyone of my friends from my school w/o a job, gratned we are a mid sized market with two schools (one having a very small class) and I doubt this is the case in NYC or Chicago, but there are places where law stundents don't out number jobs. Maybe they are not glamorius cities or the highest paying markets but there are places without a glut of unemployeed law grads.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

StevePirates

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
    • JollyLawger
    • Email
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2008, 12:39:36 PM »
I do.  Not everyone goes to law school because of economic reasons.  Some people just want to be lawyers.  Anyone who passes the bar can go out and hang up a shingle.

Sure! Because you know, starting a brand new business which requires tens of thousands of dollars in start-up capital, plus the fact that you have a zero client base, plus the $150k in loans you have to start paying back immediately, is a piece of cake! Yeah, you're right, ANYBODY can just go out and hang a shingle.

 ::) ::) ::) ::)

They can.  Didn't say it would be successful.  Please read my sentence re: "economic reasons".
Some people don't do things for optimum return on investment.  Starving artists, musicians, lawyers, inventors.  Some people just want to do the job.  Does that make it economically sound?  No.  Are there other ways to look at it?  Yes. 

Eugene Young

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 538
    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2008, 02:15:03 PM »
The schools are there because of demand, as are loan sharks.  That doesn't make it any less predatory.  To me it seems that they are taking advantage of the fact that many 0Ls don't have an understanding of the job market.

Does anyone take issue with this statement:
You can't operate a school in good faith when even your top graduates have extreme trouble becoming employed. 

Yea, me. The jobs ARE out there, the fact that most law stundents suck at finding them unless them come down the OCI pike does not seem to me to be the schools fault. I go to a law school, I think of my schools job as teaching me the law, I think of its as my job to find myself a job. I've never relyed on my school to do that, and suprisingly I've had little problem finding jobs. There are out there people, you just have to go looking for them when you don't go to a school where they come looking for you. People get law jobs even from Cooley, it just takes more work on the students part when the school rank sucks ass. I'm sure as not going to give my school credit when I land a job I worked hard to get, nither am I going to blame them if I get nothing from OCI, geting me a job is not the primary role of a school. Lack of personal responsebilty on the part of the students is what I think is the biggest reason job rates suck out of these schools, if you go in thinking your going to get a high paying job though OCI like the Yale kids from a T4 school and do nothing to look on your own, thats the students fault. Carear services, even at my T2, will tell you the single best way to find the best jobs is networking. But still 90% of my clamssamtes wont do it. Whose fault is that the schools or the students?

As usual, Matthies has provided the credited response. It's a law school, not an employment agency (outside of the T14). If you want to be a lawyer bad enough, then get out there and make it happen instead of crying about how crappy your school and prospects are on a messageboard. How can you expect to adocate for someone else, if you can't even advocate for you?

ouffha

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2008, 03:03:09 PM »
Ha ha ha ha! That's hilarious!

StevePirates

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
    • JollyLawger
    • Email
Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2008, 03:04:47 PM »
[ How can you expect to adocate for someone else, if you can't even advocate for you?

TITCRQ.

(this is the credited rhetorical question)