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Author Topic: Native Americans, AA, and Law School  (Read 5984 times)

mbw

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2008, 11:41:37 PM »
Native Americans/American Indians (or as I shorthand, NDN  ;)) are very underrepresented in law school.  Less than 500 Indians (average over the past 5 years) apply to law school, less than 350 actually matriculate (and I suspect a fair number of those are Indians in Card/Ancestor Only, with little to no cultural affiliation.)  The T20 take 40 of those, traditional NDN programs such as Arizona, NM, OK and Denver, another 80-90.  The mean LSAT for NDNs in 2006 was around 149, versus 154 for white/Asians; fewer than 1% of NDNs score a 165+.

I'm Maine/Quebec Abenaki, strongly culturally affiliated (as well as involved in pan-Indian politics), and will be applying to most of the T14 from T6 on down (although I'll probably throw an app at Stanford.)  What are you thinking about for schools?



What's with the big "cultural affiliation" obsession?  ::)  Do you think blacks should carry a spear and wear bones in their noses in order to claim URM status?

Due to the nation-to-nation relationship between the federal government and the domestic-dependent Indian Nations, being NDN in the US is political and cultural - it is not about "race" or ethnicity, as is being "black"/African-American.  Thus, cultural/political affiliation is central to one's "Indianness".  There is no "status" Indian designation, as in Canada - you're Indian if you're enrolled/culturally affiliated, not because your great-great-granny was supposedly a Cherokee Princess.
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UFBoldAsLove

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2008, 01:05:08 PM »
Tag for later.
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mbw

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2008, 07:58:00 PM »
Native Americans/American Indians (or as I shorthand, NDN  ;)) are very underrepresented in law school.  Less than 500 Indians (average over the past 5 years) apply to law school, less than 350 actually matriculate (and I suspect a fair number of those are Indians in Card/Ancestor Only, with little to no cultural affiliation.)  The T20 take 40 of those, traditional NDN programs such as Arizona, NM, OK and Denver, another 80-90.  The mean LSAT for NDNs in 2006 was around 149, versus 154 for white/Asians; fewer than 1% of NDNs score a 165+.

I'm Maine/Quebec Abenaki, strongly culturally affiliated (as well as involved in pan-Indian politics), and will be applying to most of the T14 from T6 on down (although I'll probably throw an app at Stanford.)  What are you thinking about for schools?



What's with the big "cultural affiliation" obsession?  ::)  Do you think blacks should carry a spear and wear bones in their noses in order to claim URM status?

Due to the nation-to-nation relationship between the federal government and the domestic-dependent Indian Nations, being NDN in the US is political and cultural - it is not about "race" or ethnicity, as is being "black"/African-American.  Thus, cultural/political affiliation is central to one's "Indianness".  There is no "status" Indian designation, as in Canada - you're Indian if you're enrolled/culturally affiliated, not because your great-great-granny was supposedly a Cherokee Princess.

For some reason, my posts are disappearing on threads, yet they show up in my "latest posts" on my profile.  Anyone else having this problem?
I'm in a lynch mob?  I had no idea.  This is really worrying; I really don't have time for another extra-curricular activity.

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Laura Roslin

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2008, 08:28:52 PM »
For some reason, my posts are disappearing on threads, yet they show up in my "latest posts" on my profile.  Anyone else having this problem?

Actually, yes, now that you mention it.  A big chunk of the June LSAT score release thread disappeared, but my posts are still in my history.  I assumed that it was just due to the score day traffic overload, but perhaps the problem is more widespread.   ???
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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2008, 10:40:26 PM »
I'm not certain how being Native American is relevant to looking or acting Native American.  If I choose to be involved in the culture and I can prove my authenticity, does it matter that I no longer live on a reservation or am more assimilated?  I must admit that I have already had a school give me a cold shoulder because I no longer look NA.  If they want me for diversity, it should not matter what I look like, as long as I am what I say I am.
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Lindbergh

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2008, 10:34:19 AM »
When you say "Indian Heritage", do you mean Indian ancestry, or that you are an active member of an Indian tribe?  Frankly, I think schools are becoming more and more leery of people asserting Indianness, and want to see lots of cultural affiliation on the resume, DS and PS.

This is also what I assumed, realizing that self-selecting as NA is different than black or hispanic. 

Still, to restate my concern in a different way:  if law schools can legitimately "weed out" those self-selected NDNs, resulting in the matriculation of only one or two NDNs, how much of a sense of urgency is there to matriculate as many Native Americans as reasonably possible?  While I support the law schools' need to "weed out" some NDNs, I am concerned that it is becoming acceptable for law schools to matriculate very few NDNs.  As a result the reasoning becomes 1) there are not enough qualified NDNs and 2) there aren't enough NDNs who are "Indian" enough. 

I guess the numbers make me question the sense of responsibility that the T14 has to enroll NDNs.

To be honest, I've worried about this myself.  I guess I'll find out this cycle, neh?


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Lindbergh

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2008, 10:35:51 AM »
Native Americans/American Indians (or as I shorthand, NDN  ;)) are very underrepresented in law school.  Less than 500 Indians (average over the past 5 years) apply to law school, less than 350 actually matriculate (and I suspect a fair number of those are Indians in Card/Ancestor Only, with little to no cultural affiliation.)  The T20 take 40 of those, traditional NDN programs such as Arizona, NM, OK and Denver, another 80-90.  The mean LSAT for NDNs in 2006 was around 149, versus 154 for white/Asians; fewer than 1% of NDNs score a 165+.

I'm Maine/Quebec Abenaki, strongly culturally affiliated (as well as involved in pan-Indian politics), and will be applying to most of the T14 from T6 on down (although I'll probably throw an app at Stanford.)  What are you thinking about for schools?



What's with the big "cultural affiliation" obsession?  ::)  Do you think blacks should carry a spear and wear bones in their noses in order to claim URM status?

This would actually make more sense, but we all know AA is BS anyway.

Lindbergh

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2008, 10:40:17 AM »
The answer is no.  I applied to 20 schools:  Rejected at 8 accepted at 8 WL at 3.  20th is incommunicado.  So much for my American Indian heritage as a benefit to law school acceptance.  My #1 choice has me on the WL (still) and they use an Indian tribe as their mascot.  Go figure...

Were your numbers far below the median?  If so, we can't infer much from this.

If they were near median, the question becomes how seriously they took your NA status.  If it was your great-grandmother, they might not decide to care.  If you actually grew up on a reservation, I'm sure it would've helped.

Lindbergh

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2008, 10:41:32 AM »
I'm not certain how being Native American is relevant to looking or acting Native American.  If I choose to be involved in the culture and I can prove my authenticity, does it matter that I no longer live on a reservation or am more assimilated?  I must admit that I have already had a school give me a cold shoulder because I no longer look NA.  If they want me for diversity, it should not matter what I look like, as long as I am what I say I am.

A major component of AA rationale is "overcoming obstacle", including looking different, and presumably being treated differently. 

What actual NA lifestyle did you grow up with?

Lindbergh

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Re: Native Americans, AA, and Law School
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2008, 10:42:59 AM »
I was looking at the incoming class profiles on LSAC and I am surprised at how few NAs are enrolled at top law schools.  NYU for example has ZERO, while African Americans are around 10%. 

So are there much fewer Native Americans applying or do Native Americans not get as much of a boost as other minorities, like African Americans for example?  I know there are fewer NAs as a population, but NYU couldn't find at least ONE over a three year period?  This seems strange to me and makes me wonder how wide my net needs to be when I apply this fall.

Legit NA's get a huge boost, b/c there's not many of them, and they're severely underrepresented.  Probably a comparable boost to blacks, if not greater.  Main problem is that not many apply.