Law School Discussion

JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....

Julie Fern

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Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2010, 09:24:41 AM »
oh my.


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Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2010, 12:17:39 PM »
I just want to respond to this it sounds like a really heart breaking story, but I don't think any school has a mandatory cut. I know for a fact my tier 4 does not have a mandatory cut, because I read the handbook and there are no mandatory D's and it would just be stupid to dismiss students that are paying them. The reality is if you got a 1.7 GPA on exams that focus on only class at a time you probably are not going to pass the bar where 20 or subjects are tested simultaneously and they have to let you go.

It would be wrong to take your money for 2 1/2 more years if it seems apparent you can't pass the bar. I realize the death of your grandfather etc is horrible and they probably should have made some kind of exception, because that is an extenuating circumstance. Their behavior of calling the OP a security risk etc sounds excessive. At the end of the day though if you are a normal student and get a 1.7 it would just be wrong to keep you in school. Just like it would be a wrong for a personal trainer to tell a 5'9 slow white kid to pay him 300 a week to help him to get to the NBA it is not going to happen. Or even the famous dancing lessons case in contracts, where the guy was charging the 70 year old woman for dance lessons telling her she would be famous. It would really be wrong to keep you for 3 year more years and take 100k of your money knowing full well that you probably will not pass the bar.

Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2010, 09:05:46 PM »
Just curious how Golden Gate attrition is compared to my Tier 4 .  We also do not have a mandatory cut, but the 2.7 curve yields a predictable bell curve wherefore the bottom of the class is swept out.  We started with 236 in the fall.  Only 213 were around to take the Term 2 exams.  13 of the 213 appear to be below the required 2.0 on the class ranks. This is actually much lower than recent years- it is usually 20 students.

So that leaves 200.  Take away the expected 20 to 30 transfers (not me) and you are left with approximately 175 students and a 26% attrition rate. Assuming arguendo that this constitutes one of the highest attrition rates in the country ( i think it is top 10) it is still not unreasonable because many of these numbers were not arising out of academic dismissals.


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Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2010, 09:29:25 PM »
Nobody failed out first semester that I know about. You would need to get a 1.5 to get kicked out first semester and that would be hard to do.  I only really know one person that got kicked out academically and it wasn't that surprising the person almost never read any of the cases.  There was 273 in the first round of rankings 236 now and I know some people get kicked out academically, but I don't know who they were except for the one person.

I assume there will be a few transfers and it will end up being around the general 20% rate.

Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2010, 02:16:41 PM »
I am sorry that you got academically dismissed and my heart goes out to you. I wanted to know if you took any practice exams prior to the actual test. You mention that you didnt test well.

I searched for practice exams, but all profs test differently and none of them have old exams available.
We mostly used law in a flash, E&E, and Q&A books for test review, along with emmanuels, and I did really well - often explaining why I answered the way I did to my study buddies who got the questions wrong and didn't understand the material.
I took an old practice exam for Contracts and scored 90%, but it wasn't at school, wasn't under the stress of a room full of law school students, and I didn't take the test thinking that it was representative of my entire grade in class.  I just took the test under a 2 and a half hour time contraint.
The LD hit hard the day of the exams, my friends were all freaking out, and I was very nervous (and thought about my grandfather nonstop during the tests).
Note to pickle:
I'm still not buying the correlation between first semester grades and Bar exam scores either.  I know dozens of lawyers, some who passed the bar first time, and some who passed it second go around.  Some straight A law students passed first time and some had to retake, which is the same for people who barely squeaked by.
Then there's the old adage:
The A students become professors, the B students become judges and the C students make all the money

doods, do watcha like.

I don't think you will be admitted, graduate, pass the bar.  But hey, use me as inspiration.  Good luck Nachas!  I mean it.

I usually hate it when people revive old threads, but it appears that I have a rare opportunity to prove that most of the people with their insane theories and nasty attitudes were and will continue to be dead wrong.
I was readmitted after one year.  During that year, I clerked/paralegal-ed at a medium sized firm, got with my doc, got on meds, and started working on coping mechanisms.
Now that I am halfway through school, I am proud to report (mostly to the a-holes who said it couldn't be done, that ADHD doesn't exist, and that I am, in general, a failure who should seek another career) that I am on the dean's list - top 25%.
It turns out, ADHD is so real that the school hired a disability coordinator to assist students (like me) who have LD's that hurt their performance.  I've studied hard, worked hard, and dedicated myself and proved every idiot on this board who said it was impossible wrong.  I didn't do it to prove you wrong.  I didn't do it to prove me right.  I did it because I love the law and want to be a lawyer.
So, to those of you hiding in the shadows, afraid that having ADHD will prevent you from accomplishing your dreams, learn to ignore the ignorant and spiteful jerks who never miss an opportunity to kick someone when they are down.
To those of you who made fun of me for being affected by the loss of my grandfather, I feel sorry for you.  If you don't get affected by a massive loss like that, the loss of your hero, a holocaust survivor who came to this country and was told daily that he would fail, a man who learned english, started a business, and retired not just a millionaire, but a community leader, you are dead inside.  Good lawyers can't afford to be dead inside.    If you suffer a personal loss, my advice is to speak to your professors and the school administration about it.  You might be surprised at how far they will go to make it easier on you.
As I look forward to finishing the remainder of law school (the second half) and preparing for the bar, I take with me the great personal satisfaction of knowing that my struggle, while painful and embarrassing to go through, simply made me better.
To those of you who use these boards to ridicule people, make them feel worse, and pick on people who need help - don't worry, you will one day be judged for your behavior.  And you will, of course, lose many cases to people just like me - people who struggled and fought on when you would quit.  See, it says more about who you are than who I am when the best advice you could come up with was to quit, to give up, to find something else.  People like me persevere.  People like you quit when the going gets tough.
A few points I wanted to clear up:
JMLS does have a mandatory cut.  They are required to academically dismiss between 10 and 15% of the yearly entering class.  The numbers don't lie and are too consistent to believe that they don't.  Every year, 10-15% are academically dismissed.
Bar exam statistics at my school show that the highest pass rate doesn't come from the students who, after the first year, got all A's or B's.  Statistically speaking, people who had a B-/C+ average passed at the highest rate.  Furthermore, if it wasn't for the mandatory curve, designed to eliminate 10-15% of students, there would be no reason for me to have been academically dismissed.  I've met with the prof's who gave me the D's since coming back.  Every one of them told me that I got screwed by the system, that they wished they could change it, and that they've lobbied for change but have been shut down.  For the record, the classes I got D's in?  I got B+'s in all of them.
ADHD is a real disorder.  It affects millions of people.  It has seen incredible breakthroughs in the last few years in terms of recognition, cognitive development, and medical treatment.  I went for a full evaluation with a doctor who specializes in LD's and he told me, unequivocally, that I was a fairly typical case.  He told me that many people come to him, having done well in their careers and well in undergrad, who find they have trouble in law school, med school, and grad school.
Sure, the bar is tough.  I'm not afraid of it anymore though because I've been learning so much better now. 
When people take shots at others who do poorly, go through difficulties that hurt their performance, and run into trouble, they expose more about themselves than they do about the person they took shots at.  I am not stupid.  I am not lazy.  I am not an underachiever.  I suffer from a medical condition recognized by the medical profession, the federal government, state government, and every educational system in the country.  Making fun of someone with ADHD is exactly like making fun of someone with diabetes, MS, or any other medical condition they have no control over.  Like a diabetic, I can control my condition with medication.  The result isn't that I have an advantage over you, but rather that I am equalized to you.  Furthermore, research has now determined that in certain circumstances, people with ADHD often have a distinct advantage over people without it.
Don't be embarrassed.  Don't be afraid.  And never give up on something you care about.  If you care enough, you can and will overcome any obstacle.
Remember, people who never fail never really win. 
"“There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.” - Colin Powell
"“Failure is a detour, not a dead-end street.” - Zig Ziglar
“Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement.” - C.S. Lewis
“Failure is the tuition you pay for success.” - Walter Brunell
“Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.” - Chinese proverb
"Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. " - Michael Jordan
Here is a short list of successful people with ADHD:
Albert Einstein
Thomas Edison
Nelson Rockefeller
Louis Pasteur
Alexander Graham Bell
John F. Kennedy
Woodrow Wilson

Here's an ABA article about lawyers with ADHD, printed well before this discussion began (oddly contradicting every moron who claimed it didn't exist and that people with ADHD can't be good lawyers):

Cranks, a-holes, trolls, and jerks love to sit behind their computers telling other people they've never met how stupid they are.  These same people wouldn't dare say the same things to actual people standing in front of them.  That's why they do it - they have no fear that what they say has repercussions.  I'd love for even one of you to say it to my face, but you wouldn't because you are weak and afraid.
If you have suffered with academic difficulties and suspect you may have ADHD, don't self-diagnose.  Go see a professional.
If you have been academically dismissed, of course reevaluate and think about whether the law is for you.  If you decide it is, go for it.  The idiots who tell you not to or guarantee you will fail?  They don't know anything.  They only think they do.  They said I wouldn't be readmitted, yet I was.  They said I would just fail out again, yet I didn't.  They said I couldn't be successful, yet I am.  Many of them will fail the bar exam their first go around.  It's okay.  They'll either follow their own advice and quit or they will realize that they need to try harder.  Personally, I hope they stick to it and try again.  Weak people quit when things get hard.  Strong people struggle then get back up and try again.
I wish you all success (even the jerks with no sensitivity, compassion, or actual knowledge).


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Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2010, 03:48:53 PM »
That's awesome good for you. I just have one comment and I that is I do not believe any school would require 15 percent of their class to fail out. School's are businesses and students are paying customers it would make no sense to require people to fail out. The first go around for you had a lot of struggles and it just didn't work out. I could see 10 to 20 percent of students having life get in their way or just not be prepared for law school. That happens a lot and is more likely the reason for attrition rather requiring people to fail out. Maybe I am wrong, but it makes no logical sense to fail out people that are capable of passing the bar and paying you 30k a year.  Anyways, good for you for getting back in and kicking ass.

Re: JMLS Academic dismissal: gripes and questions....
« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2012, 04:27:09 PM »
Hey so sorry to hear about the dismissal.  JMLS is definitely a school that "weeds," I mean curves people out regardless of whether they have the ability to do so.  I was at Cooley and got dismissed after 4 terms and 45 credits.  I had 2 terms to bring it up.  started Summer 2007, last semester was summer 2008, got my dismissal letter in October 2008)  At the time I was in school I had severe insomnia, being abused/stalked by former boyfriend, he and the emotional problems I fully alienated me from any support network, and the school did not have anything they could do to help me and I do not know that they could have or were technically required to (and b/c of their recent lawsuit, I will decline to comment on the school's response to me seeking out their assistance)  However, I did average my 1st trimester and this might have saved me in reapplications

So I swallowed my pride, moved in with my parents, worked full time + and spent all of my free time studying for the LSAT and getting my head on straight.  Turns out I am Bipolar I (but in my essays I wrote I had generalized anxiety disorder - I was misdiagnosed but even still that is a much easier mood disorder to deal with).  I went to therapy and we spent most of the time figuring out how I can get organized and do well in an academic setting.  I was promoted from legal assistant, to legal secretary and file clerk to paralegal.  I became very well-versed in legal software and grew connections in the legal community (but did not use a single one of them for my recommendation letters, jsut used the old ones from my 1st round).

Anyways, I studied on and off for 10 months.  I quit my job in Novemember to get my essays in order, understand the reapplication process, call everyone on every admissions committe at any school with low attrition rates.  All I wanted was readmission and to get on with my life, but I wanted to be healthy even more than that.

To make a long story short, re-took the LSAT in February 2010, got a 162.  My original score was a 154.  my UGPA was a 2.8 (prestigious school though, got over 1300 on 2002 SAT)

Anyways, I wrote addendum on how this shows how I have gotten myself together and this essay worked most of the time.  Private schools were more receptive than public schools.  I got 2 full rides to T3 schools.  One school dean asked to make an appointment to meet face to face and that he would fly across the country (he was from a school in the Pacific time zone, I was eastern time zone) to talk to me about his school (I received a full-ride there). 

the first school I got into was a private school in the midwest in the top 100.  Thinking it was a fluke I called them to make sure they knew I was dismissed before.  The person that answered the phone said she personally revieewed my applicatioin, that I was reviewed by the entire admissions committee twice, and that she was excited to meet me in the fall, or at least to see me at an open house.  She also said she believes I definietely have the capacity to do well at the school and that the school will do anything they can to make sure I succeed. - so of course this is the school I went to.

I had a lot of people in my life frustrated with me.  They thought this was a pipe dream, that I was wasting my time and that I needed to give up.  F*ck them!  Never let anyone tell you know, and keep asking how.  Get creative, and make the most of what you have.  And if you don't get in, there are a lot of other jobs out there that pay better and have fewer hours. 

No matter what, I put everything into it and had the chance to get closure.  Do not ever let another's view of you affect how you feel about yourself or what you believe your potential is.

I really hope you get back in.  to anyone else that got dismissed, I hope that you get closure (but more than that  hope you get into a better school.

everyday I walk into school I feel like Cinderella and I am so grateful for the people who believed in me, or least pretended to.

GOOD LUCK!!! hope this helps!!!