Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."  (Read 4242 times)

we are watching you

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Get ready for a change.

The TSA has given the go-ahead for passengers to use newly designed carry-on bags that will let them pass through security without having to take their laptops out for the X-ray inspection. Kip Hawley, the agency's director, told me Monday that the T.S.A. would accept the new laptop cases as soon as they come on the market. Two of the biggest luggage manufacturers — Pathfinder Luggage and Targus — say they are rushing to produce the new "checkpoint friendly" laptop cases and expect them to be available by late September or early October. Two problems with the existing laptop cases are that security officers have difficulty seeing inside them with X-ray equipment, and many of the cases are so crammed with extra gear — power cords, a mouse and the like — that the computer is obscured. The new cases include either a fold-down section in a bigger briefcase or a stand-alone protective sleeve that contains no extra clutter and can be readily viewed through the scanner.

More than a half-dozen luggage manufacturers, among about 60 that initially responded to a T.S.A. request for proposals about three months ago, have submitted prototypes for testing at checkpoints at three airports: Dulles, outside Washington; Austin-Bergstrom in Texas; and Ontario, near Los Angeles. The agency says that more than a quarter of all air travelers carry laptops through security. Along with having to remove shoes, the requirement to take a laptop out of its protective case has long rankled business travelers, who worry about damage to exposed computers as well as potential loss in the pileup of various travelers’ possessions on the other side of the X-ray station. Mr. Hawley, meanwhile, has often said that confusion at checkpoints is itself a security problem. Designing laptop cases that can improve customer service while keeping security at a high level is a way to better ensure a "calm and predictable" checkpoint environment, he said. "Threats have a hard time hiding in a calm environment," he said. "Chaos is great camouflage."

Mr. Hawley said the agency had been working with various manufacturers to develop the new luggage designs. He predicted that various new laptop cases that conform to government requirements would be in wide use by the holidays in December. "On a conference call with industry representatives, I said that the T.S.A. will not be your gatekeeper on this," Mr. Hawley said. "It all depends on how fast you can get to market. We won't slow you down." Ron Davis, the executive vice president of Pathfinder Luggage, said that his company had just started producing its two new cases at a plant in the Philippines. He said both had been tested at checkpoints to ensure that they met government specifications. "They don't want anything obscuring the view of the laptop,” he said. “In our case, the material is nylon and foam, and the X-ray machine will see right through that." Pathfinder is making two models but plans others. One is a briefcase in which the attached laptop holder is exposed when the case is unzipped. The other is a wheeled carry-on with a removable laptop case. Mr. Davis estimated that the briefcase version would sell for $100 to $150 and the wheeled version for $150 to $200. Targus, the largest maker of cases for laptops and notebook computers, is about to begin production at factories in China of four new models of checkpoint-compatible bags, said Al Giazzon, the vice president for marketing.
Raz, dva, tri, i!

Hup hup hup hup hup hup, davaj davaj davaj!
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup hup,
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup, ohhh

brag

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 03:34:32 PM »
hahaha ;)

Yanni

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2008, 03:53:31 PM »

Raz, dva, tri, i!

Hup hup hup hup hup hup, davaj davaj davaj!
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup hup,
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup, ohhh


Ha - Arsenium/Love Me Love Me!

doubtie

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2008, 07:52:39 AM »
One of the reasons they make you place the laptop on the belt is that they want to be able to turn on the computer if they want to. Also, the computer blocks the other items in the computer bag, so you remove it so the screener can see the rest of the bags contents. You may also be asked to log in if the security guy "feel" a "security concern" about you (translation: your skin is too dark). There are many report of people being force to give *ALL* their passwords. Keep your laptop safe...Many airports in their "Terror Paranoia" keep confiscating laptops and cell pones and many electronics from travelers that don't look "blond-blue-eyed Americans".

As far as X-rays are concerned: they can see thru it, but it could be tough to know if it is a laptop or a bomb hidden in a laptop. They are supposed to make you take them out and power them up so they know they are real laptops. Otherwise you could hide bomb material inside (wires and such) and they would be none the wiser. If you make someone take it out and power it up, any problems with it powering up might give them a reason to take a much closer look.

notmikejones

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 11:59:57 AM »
One of the reasons they make you place the laptop on the belt is that they want to be able to turn on the computer if they want to. Also, the computer blocks the other items in the computer bag, so you remove it so the screener can see the rest of the bags contents. You may also be asked to log in if the security guy "feel" a "security concern" about you (translation: your skin is too dark). There are many report of people being force to give *ALL* their passwords. Keep your laptop safe...Many airports in their "Terror Paranoia" keep confiscating laptops and cell pones and many electronics from travelers that don't look "blond-blue-eyed Americans".

As far as X-rays are concerned: they can see thru it, but it could be tough to know if it is a laptop or a bomb hidden in a laptop. They are supposed to make you take them out and power them up so they know they are real laptops. Otherwise you could hide bomb material inside (wires and such) and they would be none the wiser. If you make someone take it out and power it up, any problems with it powering up might give them a reason to take a much closer look.

Pretty sure they can't actually force you to give them your passwords...  I know its wikipedia but you can look the case up in an official source yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Boucher

no free haircuts

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 01:20:36 PM »
mike, the case you cite focuses on "criminal defendants" -- whether they can be compelled to reveal their encryption passphrase. People with laptops being checked in airports are not considered "defendants" until after they are arrested for something.

notmikejones

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 05:39:15 PM »
no free haircuts: I do agree that it is not directly on point, but I think it is related and informative to this issue.

This case found that "entering the password" (at least in this limited circumstance) was testimonial.  The case also referenced a case which said the fifth amendment applies when communications are testimonial, compelled, and incriminating. 

It is interesting to think even if it were held that it is always testimonial to enter your password, you may not enjoy protection against being forced to do so unless you actually have something illegal on your computer.  Still,  it seems questionable whether you could be prosecuted for refusing to give your password to a TSA person, especially if you later claimed doing so would incriminate yourself.  I will be the first to admit, I don't know nearly as much about the fifth amendment as I would like to, but it seems like you would have some protection (from prosecution at least) unless "compelled" refers only to judicial proceedings, which seems unlikely.  It does seem like they could just prevent you from traveling if you were unwilling to comply.

I think I am going to have to look for some articles or something about this issue, it is pretty interesting.

QIR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2008, 06:38:54 PM »

Raz, dva, tri, i!

Hup hup hup hup hup hup, davaj davaj davaj!
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup hup,
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup, ohhh


Ha - Arsenium/Love Me Love Me!


I don't mean to be a cynic, but I have not heard even little children say "Love me"...
IT'S @ # ! * I N G TIME, BABY!

goda

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2008, 07:23:42 PM »

Raz, dva, tri, i!

Hup hup hup hup hup hup, davaj davaj davaj!
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup hup,
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup, ohhh


Ha - Arsenium/Love Me Love Me!


I don't mean to be a cynic, but I have not heard even little children say "Love me"...


LOL QIR! ;)

godo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: "Laptops must be removed from their cases and placed on the belt."
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 06:39:56 PM »

Raz, dva, tri, i!

Hup hup hup hup hup hup, davaj davaj davaj!
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup hup,
Ohhh, hup hup hup hup hup, ohhh


Ha - Arsenium/Love Me Love Me!


I don't mean to be a cynic, but I have not heard even little children say "Love me"...


Sounds exactly Joan Crawford shouting over Christina "Love me!!!" after she nearly killed her:


"Why can't you give me the respect that I'm entitled to? Why can't you treat me like I would be treated by any stranger on the street?"
"Because I am not one of your fans!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-rkh-0S6q4
When one has not had a good father, one must create one.