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Author Topic: Why I don't agree with AA  (Read 21942 times)

t...

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2008, 11:43:35 PM »
Why is it that everyone that opposes AA has that story (well, that or growing up as a poor white in the inner city)?

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Cady on October 16, 2007, 10:41:52 PM

i rhink tyi'm inejying my fudgcicle too much

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Huey on February 07, 2007, 11:15:32 PM

I went to a party in an apartment in a silo once.

StevePirates

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2008, 11:59:51 PM »
Why is it that everyone that opposes AA has that story (well, that or growing up as a poor white in the inner city)?

Because poor white children face many of the same disadvantages from a purely socioeconomic perspective, while AA ignores the socioeconomic realities of CLASS and resources, but instead focuses solely on a few genes or a country of origin.

Think about it this way, who do you think needs more help obtaining an education, an African American living in Beverly Hills with two parents, one a lawyer and the other a doctor?  Or a Caucasian living in Compton with only a single mother who is an alcoholic stripper.

Personally, I'm not specifically against AA, I just wish there was an analogous program that looked more into family background and socioeconomic status than just a few genes.



The Artist

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2008, 12:03:07 AM »
Why is it that everyone that opposes AA has that story (well, that or growing up as a poor white in the inner city)?



Because it's damn good counter-evidence.

t...

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2008, 12:06:06 AM »
It misses the point of affirmative action.

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Cady on October 16, 2007, 10:41:52 PM

i rhink tyi'm inejying my fudgcicle too much

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Huey on February 07, 2007, 11:15:32 PM

I went to a party in an apartment in a silo once.

Rehash-O-Bot

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2008, 12:16:28 AM »
Why is it that everyone that opposes AA has that story (well, that or growing up as a poor white in the inner city)?



Because it's damn good counter-evidence.



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NONE OF THE PROMINENT SUPPORTERS OF AA ON THIS FORUM DISAGREE THAT ECONOMIC STATUS IS A FACTOR THAT SHOULD ENTER INTO A COMPLETE ANALYSIS.

RACE AND ECONOMICS BASED AA ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS WHICH SOMETIMES OVERLAP.

THE TWO SHOULD BE DISCUSSED INDIVIDUALLY FOR GREATER CLARITY.

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pig floyd

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2008, 12:25:50 AM »
lol
I hate science because I refuse to assume that a discipline based in large part on the continual scrapping and renewal of ideas is unconditionally correct in a given area.

Matthies

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2008, 11:11:51 AM »
Simple difference between race based and economic based AA:
Being born a URM is genetic

Being poor is a choice (barring physical or metal disability, which are sometimes genetic)

Being a URM your more likely to face more challenges to overcoming poverty than a typical white poor person. Either way, either because of choices of profession, spending habits, having children before your finically ready, enjoying a job even though it does not pay well, choosing to work one job, choosing not to work and go to school, bad spending/saving habits, whatever the reason being poor is a choice. In the US today, through hard work and sacrifice, almost anyone can bring themselves out of poverty. Does that mean you may have to forgo some of lifeís luxuries, yes, of course.

Yet today we have a society that thinks, even if they are poor, they deserve the same privileges of the rich. The people before them who started out poor and became, through hard work, rich, and whose children then get those benefits. Poor people think they should be able to go to college right after HS, because thatís what middle class kids do. They want AA to give them what others have, they want an advantage they are not willing to work for, or those that preceded them where not willing to work for. In my view economic AA is worse than race based AA, because we are rewarding bad choices. The American dream is not creating a new middle class through handouts, its encouraging a new middle class through hard work.

Hence I do not support economic AA, poorness is a choice, I donít think we should hand out slots at schools or tax payer money to people who chose (for whatever, even good, reasons) to be poor.  I donít think we should reward or encourage poor people simply becuase they are poor. Thatís not what our country was built on. We did not inherit a landed aristocracy, where you only other choice was to be a peasant. We are a nation of immigrants who came here with nothing and became successful through hard work, and at times, sacrificing things for themselves so their children could have a better life. The government did not hand out $ to try and make poor and rich equal, it was up to the individual to do that. If your white and poor all you got is poor holding you back. Itís a choice so change it, work harder, if that means you canít go to the best school or right away because you canít afford it, so be it, work harder it builds character. We should not be trying to redistribute wealth by giving poor people a preference in schools. If you work hard enough to get the stats to get in, great, if not, we should not reward you because your parents (not you) have a low income.

Life is not fair folks, and life should not, at least based on the principles of rugged individualism that America was built on, try to be made fair or equal just because by birth you did not end up in a rich family. Thatís a choice, you can change that on your own, you can becomes rich, maybe not by going to Harvard, but most rich people did not either. There is no right to equality in education based on income, there is not right to higher education just because your family got handed a rough deal. You become what you make of yourself, and if your white and poor, its only the poorness you have to overcome.

If your poor and you want your kids to be able to go to the best schools, work hard and sacrifice so they can, even if that means your personal goals have to be set aside. I donít think the country owes you anything if your poor BUT the chance to be free from discrimination and policies that try to keep you poor (like you canít enter this profession at all because your female). You donít, in America, deserve a trophy just for playing the game, you deserve a trophy for winning the game. 
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Thistle

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2008, 11:43:17 AM »
wait though, if one is born into a poor family, could that not be considered a genetic cause?  luck of the draw for distribution of souls?  or, what if scientists identified a gen for laziness?  would they then be covered under the ADA?
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

Matthies

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2008, 12:30:40 PM »
wait though, if one is born into a poor family, could that not be considered a genetic cause?  luck of the draw for distribution of souls?  or, what if scientists identified a gen for laziness?  would they then be covered under the ADA?

We could just abort based on taxable income
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Thistle

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Re: Why I don't agree with AA
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2008, 12:31:24 PM »
wait though, if one is born into a poor family, could that not be considered a genetic cause?  luck of the draw for distribution of souls?  or, what if scientists identified a gen for laziness?  would they then be covered under the ADA?

We could just abort based on taxable income


standard deduction?
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD