Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.  (Read 2834 times)

goaliechica

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6287
  • It's only forever - not long at all.
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 10:37:30 AM »
Simple and short answer: medical care is provided but immediately after it is provided the family is forced to deport.

That certainly would not have a chilling effect on people seeking care for serious health problems for themselves or their children.
Quote from: Earthbound SNES
Get a sense of humor, Susan B. Anthony!
Quote from: dashrashi
I'm going to cut a female dog. With a knife with a brown handle, natch.
Quote from: Elephant Lee
Don't judge me. You've not had my life.

wrhssaxensemble

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 162
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 10:43:16 AM »
Honestly, I think no hearing is necessary.

I only have time to address this one right now.  Work to do, etc.

No hearing necessary?  What if I'm an American citizen who just happens to look hispanic, has a hispanic name, and I just happen to be caught somewhere with my wallet in my other pants?

Me:  no really, my mother was born in texas and my father was born in new york city.  I was born here!

INS:  No ID, no stay.

Me:  Ah come on man, at least take me by my place to get my ID.

INS:  No time for that, 11,999,999 more illegals to round up.

No photo ID = flight to Mexico City?

No.

Easy. They ask you for your information including your social security number, date and place of birth, mothers maiden name etc. You give it to them. They look it up. If you seem legitimate that should be sufficient, but if it isn't for whatever reason and you seem legitimate, but still no ID, they bring you to your house and have you show it to them. Anyone who doesn't fit into those categories should be deported. Really, there is no need for a trial besides to pay judges and lawyers. Most of the information that would come out would already be available through the process outlined above.

Or the alternative, and probably better option, is to have a national ID system like we should.

But like I said, we could have trials if it would get the left-leaning people on board with deportation

wrhssaxensemble

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 162
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 10:46:30 AM »
Simple and short answer: medical care is provided but immediately after it is provided the family is forced to deport.

That certainly would not have a chilling effect on people seeking care for serious health problems for themselves or their children.

I am not sure I entirely understand what you mean. But for the more serious issues, it would have to be on a case by case basis. But there is no reason they have to get some of the more advanced medical care here (cancer treatments etc.). I have always thought it kind of funny how the same people who say our medical system is awful and needs to be taken over by the government are the same people who say it is our job to care for the health of illegals because we have a better system than they do back home. Not accusing you or anyone else of thinking that but just seems so nonsensical of a view to me

pig floyd

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 852
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2008, 10:47:55 AM »
And here we come to one of my two or three principles:

2.  If it happened to me...

This is something to ponder seriously for a few years. 

Edit:  really going to go do some work about now.
I hate science because I refuse to assume that a discipline based in large part on the continual scrapping and renewal of ideas is unconditionally correct in a given area.

goaliechica

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 6287
  • It's only forever - not long at all.
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2008, 10:48:45 AM »
Simple and short answer: medical care is provided but immediately after it is provided the family is forced to deport.

That certainly would not have a chilling effect on people seeking care for serious health problems for themselves or their children.

I am not sure I entirely understand what you mean. But for the more serious issues, it would have to be on a case by case basis. But there is no reason they have to get some of the more advanced medical care here (cancer treatments etc.). I have always thought it kind of funny how the same people who say our medical system is awful and needs to be taken over by the government are the same people who say it is our job to care for the health of illegals because we have a better system than they do back home. Not accusing you or anyone else of thinking that but just seems so nonsensical of a view to me

I'm leaving after this, because this thread is giving me hives already, and I need to do work.

What I mean is that if you say that people can get medical treatment but will then be instantly deported, they will not seek medical treatment for themselves or their children, even if they really need it.
Quote from: Earthbound SNES
Get a sense of humor, Susan B. Anthony!
Quote from: dashrashi
I'm going to cut a female dog. With a knife with a brown handle, natch.
Quote from: Elephant Lee
Don't judge me. You've not had my life.

wrhssaxensemble

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 162
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2008, 10:51:25 AM »
Well if the government makes it sufficiently clear they are going to deport them anyways regardless of whether they get medical care or not, they will certainly get their care then get deported. The problem is that you are viewing the health care situation as entirely seperate from the proposed reforms when it should actually be in conjunction with it. The problem is the government MUST make it sufficiently clear they will be deported anyways which is about as far from what we are doing right now as possible

wrhssaxensemble

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 162
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2008, 07:38:15 AM »
I see...still no response to my comments regarding the proposals or for my own questions at the end. hmmmm whatever could that mean?

robelguapo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2008, 01:36:51 PM »
Good points all around....

I propose a hybrid.

1. Build the wall (yes, expensive but I'm sure a fraction of just the daily cost of operations in say Iraq...to put it in perspective).

2. Give the border patrol the equipment/people/authority to do their job. UAVs, more personnel, etc. Maybe even have Guard units augment.

3. Institute reformed legal immigration rules.

4. Institute a national ID. Yes, I know all the conspiracy theories, and I'm a libertarian...I know the arguments. In my opinion it is a necessary program in our day in age. A general database of who is who. Nothing more. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it doesnt track anything else.

I think it's unrealistic to think we can round up and kick out so many people from our country. Like it or not they are an important part of our economy and society. Yes, our society too. There will be so many 'humanity' cases if we were to round them up and get them out, it would make our heads spin. Which leads me to:

5. Once our borders are 'secure', our immigration policy more realistic, amnesty everyone...start all over. The illegals become legal, we collect taxes on their labor, all the gray areas disappear. We can absorb those numbers, we already have them.


All these factors combined should allow us to more effeciently control immigration, legal or otherwise.

Securing our borders, being able to quickly and accurately distingush citizens and non-citizens, along with a strong and realistic policy/law to me are absoloute musts for anything to work.

EDIT: I had two number 4's...  ::)

confusedatquinnipiac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2008, 02:19:26 PM »
Good points all around....

I propose a hybrid.

1. Build the wall (yes, expensive but I'm sure a fraction of just the daily cost of operations in say Iraq...to put it in perspective).

2. Give the border patrol the equipment/people/authority to do their job. UAVs, more personnel, etc. Maybe even have Guard units augment.

3. Institute reformed legal immigration rules.

4. Institute a national ID. Yes, I know all the conspiracy theories, and I'm a libertarian...I know the arguments. In my opinion it is a necessary program in our day in age. A general database of who is who. Nothing more. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it doesnt track anything else.

I think it's unrealistic to think we can round up and kick out so many people from our country. Like it or not they are an important part of our economy and society. Yes, our society too. There will be so many 'humanity' cases if we were to round them up and get them out it, would make our heads spin. Which leads me to:

4. Once our borders are 'secure', our immigration policy more realistic, amnesty everyone...start all over. The illegals become legal, we collect taxes on their labor, all the gray areas disappear. We can absorb those numbers, we already have them.


All these factors combined should allow us to more effeciently control immigration, legal or otherwise.

Securing our borders, being able to quickly and accurately distingush citizens and non-citizens, along with a strong and realistic policy/law to me are absoloute musts for anything to work.

I agree with what you said, especially in regards to the National ID system. However, I am just curious how #4 will be different from what we did in the 80's which clearly didn't work.... perhaps the difference though is the wall put up etc. I would be ok with this solution you put forward.

imwithhappy

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma state House asserts state sovereignty under 10th Amendment.
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2008, 08:26:15 PM »
ever since the U.S. put the National Guard on duty in high traffic areas, beefed up patrols and the number of Border Patrol agents the numbers of illegals crossing has dropped significantly.  We only need to enforce the immigrations laws we have on the books and supplement them with increased border security to stem the flow.  Give the INS more money to revamp their system, punish employers who knowingly hire illegals and this problem will solve itself.  The number of illegals has dropped significantly since we put tougher controls in place.  http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/washington/10bush.html 
University of Oklahoma '11