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Author Topic: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects  (Read 24196 times)

rainyday

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below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« on: June 18, 2008, 07:56:35 PM »
hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.



dashrashi

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 08:09:53 PM »
I'm told that the curve is actually somewhere between B and B+. This doesn't help-help, but it does make the situation less upsetting, I think.

Look, I talked to a rising 3L friend today who wasn't happy with his grades after 1L and went through the usual mishegoss over it, but then went and accidentally kicked ass his 2L year. Don't be demoralized. I am now more convinced than ever that HLS grades (specifically section 6's, which I think you're in too?) are completely f-ing arbitrary. And really, didn't you come to Harvard so you wouldn't have to care about your grades?
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The Artist

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 08:27:15 PM »
hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.




Seriously, go @#!* yourself.

goaliechica

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 08:34:30 PM »
hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.




Seriously, go @#!* yourself.

Dude, don't be that guy. Almost everyone worries about their grades, no matter where they are. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate where they are, or don't recognize that they're still in a good position. This is  legitimate question, and one that's hard to figure out without input from other people (I know I'm feeling pretty hazy about how OCI actually works, myself). 
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The Artist

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 08:42:39 PM »
hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.




Seriously, go @#!* yourself.

Dude, don't be that guy. Almost everyone worries about their grades, no matter where they are. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate where they are, or don't recognize that they're still in a good position. This is  legitimate question, and one that's hard to figure out without input from other people (I know I'm feeling pretty hazy about how OCI actually works, myself). 

Even if this guy went to Boalt or NYU I might empathize with him. But this dude goes to HARVARD and is around the median. Not bottom 10%. Not bottom 25%. At worst, he is botton 40%. Meaning he beat out about HALF of Harvard's law school class. He knows deep down inside he is beyond solid. He just came here for emotional reassurance.

goaliechica

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 08:48:23 PM »
hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.




Seriously, go @#!* yourself.

Dude, don't be that guy. Almost everyone worries about their grades, no matter where they are. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate where they are, or don't recognize that they're still in a good position. This is  legitimate question, and one that's hard to figure out without input from other people (I know I'm feeling pretty hazy about how OCI actually works, myself). 

Even if this guy went to Boalt or NYU I might empathize with him. But this dude goes to HARVARD and is around the median. Not bottom 10%. Not bottom 25%. At worst, he is botton 40%. Meaning he beat out about HALF of Harvard's law school class. He knows deep down inside he is beyond solid. He just came here for emotional reassurance.


::shrug::

I'll let OP speak for him or herself here, but I really think you're wrong. When you're surrounded by a bunch of absurdly smart, ambitious, competitive people, below-median can start to feel not good enough, even if rationally you know you'll be okay. This seems like a reasonable place to come try to sort that out.
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TH14

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 09:07:55 PM »
I don't know anything about HLS, so I can't speak to your situation.  But if it makes you feel any better, I'm at one of the crappier T1 schools, and am on the verge of being kicked out b/c of bad grades - albeit a marked improvement compared to 1st semester.

rainyday

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 09:21:13 PM »
yep, he got me. i actually think i am, by virtue of the name on my degree, 1000x smarter than everyone posting on this board who's not at HYS, and i'm just looking for someone to stroke my ego. 

i think goalie summed it up. frankly, i have no idea where that gpa. puts me. they don't disclose the curve; if they did, maybe I wouldn't be asking. if our career services posted stats, maybe i wouldn't be asking. but for all i know, i'm in the bottom 10%. i've been told stories by HLS alums who sat down at interviews and had the interviewer stare blankly back at them because their grades were below some cutoff the ER had imposed. no one ever talks about how the "bottom 40%" do in interviews or clerkships...they discuss what the better grades will get you, and I just don't have them. i don't think the managing partner of any big DC firm is going to be banging down my door like they would if I had A+'s (yes, we have those), and i'm not going to invent some fiction just so I can sleep at night.

i never said "woe is me; life sucks," but, frankly, i think it's kind of demoralizing to anyone--no matter if you're a rhodes scholar or at community college--to try something, fail to meet your expectations (which, in my case, were just to break even with my classmates), try harder, and yet still fell short.  it kind of sucks, and all i was looking for was something a little more useful than "you go to harvard; you have absolutely nothing to worry about." i did choose harvard so that this excruciating job-search process is--i can only hope--less excruciating.  i wish it were less excruciating for everyone. but i hope that alone doesn't mean i'm somehow not entitled to the same genre of concern about my career as everyone else.

i think it's pretty fair to wonder if you're going to get blank stares at interviews or if you won't be taken seriously by skadden et al.  believe it or not, even at harvard, there's (almost a passive-aggressive brand of) competition for good summer internships and jobs. the whole class wants a federal clerkship. harvard's class size is huge. i just read a huge prawfblog thread about how grades reflect on a student when there's, ahem, little variation.  and my friends are sending me emails about the slowing economy.

so shoot me.


hi...

i'm a rising HLS 2L with a relatively crappy grade situation.  grades came back, and, with no fabulous excuses, my 1L gpa equates to about a 3.1 on a B+ curve.  nothing lower than a B, but obviously nothing much higher either. bummed b/c 2nd semester was pretty much the same (so no marked improvement to boast, either).

can anyone speak to what I can expect at fall OCI? be honest, but gentle. thanks.




Seriously, go @#!* yourself.

Dude, don't be that guy. Almost everyone worries about their grades, no matter where they are. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate where they are, or don't recognize that they're still in a good position. This is  legitimate question, and one that's hard to figure out without input from other people (I know I'm feeling pretty hazy about how OCI actually works, myself). 

Even if this guy went to Boalt or NYU I might empathize with him. But this dude goes to HARVARD and is around the median. Not bottom 10%. Not bottom 25%. At worst, he is botton 40%. Meaning he beat out about HALF of Harvard's law school class. He knows deep down inside he is beyond solid. He just came here for emotional reassurance.


::shrug::

I'll let OP speak for him or herself here, but I really think you're wrong. When you're surrounded by a bunch of absurdly smart, ambitious, competitive people, below-median can start to feel not good enough, even if rationally you know you'll be okay. This seems like a reasonable place to come try to sort that out.

rainyday

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 09:37:08 PM »
thanks...appreciate the empathy.  and i can't believe there's now a LSN-type Web site for associate jobs.  we wannabe lawyers seriously stop at nothing to calculate risk.



Oh, I totally agree.  People act like HYS is some sudden and golden ticket.  With the exception of Y, the statistics indicate that's prestige envy and wishful thinking more than anything tangible.

Look at the notorious forum for better information; the people on LSD are, on average, somewhat less inclinced toward careerism and top firms, and, thus, less informed.  Here's a good example:

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=264461&mc=28&forum_id=2

I'm definitely worried about my situation.  I'm not going to be complacement at all.

rainyday

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Re: below-curve hls 2L re: oci prospects
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 10:00:42 PM »
well, i have my suspicions, but i don't actually know until i see the sample answers.  i'll pm it to you.


and it was actually volokh, not prawfs, sorry:

http://volokh.com/posts/1138056460.shtml#56467  was one of them, and i'm having trouble finding one that basically intimated the idea that across a number of grades, consistent mediocrity is noticed. i'll also pm that to you if/when i find it.

and no, i have not considered chasing ambulances.  with that, i'll probably call it a night on this topic. thanks for the research.  hopefully i can sleep my way into some decent firm.





http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/

Can you link me to the thread about similar grades?

What do you think you did wrong?  Do you seriously have no idea?