Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Why Obama will lose in the fall  (Read 82277 times)

Thistle

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 9234
    • View Profile
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1080 on: October 14, 2008, 07:37:29 AM »
http://www.pollster.com/polls/pa/08-pa-pres-ge-mvo.php

http://www.pollster.com/polls/fl/08-fl-pres-ge-mvo.php

One might claim all those pollsters are doing it wrong.  Will you?


duh?




he just keeps saying the same old thing over and over.  its like trying to debate a political ad on tv.
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

! B L U E WAR R I O R..!

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 8173
  • "make a friend who was once a stranger" br.war.
    • View Profile
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1081 on: October 14, 2008, 08:47:06 AM »
http://www.pollster.com/polls/pa/08-pa-pres-ge-mvo.php

http://www.pollster.com/polls/fl/08-fl-pres-ge-mvo.php

One might claim all those pollsters are doing it wrong.  Will you?


duh?




he just keeps saying the same old thing over and over.  its like trying to debate a political ad on tv.

aye am waiting for one of you to refute the things aye bring forth...because you certainly have not...

why should aye respond to those who "ignore" what aye post...




you don't understand that obama...is a one term senator???

how much weight do you think that really can carry? say wiht someone who has voted in the last four elections???

someone who voted for reagan....

reagan democrats???


and now obama's credibility is questioned...it is a major TRUST liability...


isn't the job..."commander in chief" ....many of you don't even recognize this...
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

Thistle

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 9234
    • View Profile
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1082 on: October 14, 2008, 09:17:05 AM »
sigh.


what you dont recognize is that "commander in chief" is only ONE of the jobs the president has to perform. 

a cinc is only as good as his (or her) generals.

and you dont really say anything, mostly you just post biased articles -- the same as i do ;)


the articles refute each other, while we basically say nothing and act as the medium.  my guess is that if we sat down over a couple of beers, we would have a much better conversation.  still might not agree, but at least we'd actually talk.
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

jeffislouie

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1083 on: October 14, 2008, 12:57:38 PM »
Here's some interesting reading for you staunch Obama supporters to:
a) ignore
b) claim is racist
or
c) actually read with an open mind.

I've given up trying to convince you to reconsider, so I'll just hope that a few of you still have enough of an open mind to, you know, actually learn about your candidate:

Obama and Bush are not so far apart:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/wall.bush-obama/index.html?eref=rss_politics

Hundreds of Economists sign a letter opposing Obama's ridiculous tax plans:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/10/hundres-of-econ.html

Iran sets Preconditions for meetings with the US - even though Obama won't:  This article is appalling because Iran has higher standards and takes a more powerful stance than a potential President does.....
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/terry-trippany/2008/10/13/iran-refuses-meet-us-without-preconditions

And some freakin' sweet Pumpkin Carving ideas (non-political, just cool):

http://flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=halloween+pumpkin&m=text

Enjoy.
Justice is tangy....

luke

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1084 on: October 14, 2008, 01:17:14 PM »
Hundreds of Economists sign a letter opposing Obama's ridiculous tax plans:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/10/hundres-of-econ.html

from that commie rag The Economist.

i like how you used 'ridiculous' and 'appalling' in the same post.

jeffislouie

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1085 on: October 14, 2008, 01:32:05 PM »
Hundreds of Economists sign a letter opposing Obama's ridiculous tax plans:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/10/hundres-of-econ.html

from that commie rag The Economist.

i like how you used 'ridiculous' and 'appalling' in the same post.

Thanks.  I like how you called the Economist a 'commie rag'.

Did you miss this sentence?
" the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that 530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his plans."

Just to review, 530 economists signed a statement endorsing McCain's plans and 100 (maybe more?) signed a statement saying that Obama's tax plans "are wrong for the American economy. They defy both economic reason and economic experience."

Just because I know you aren't likely to read the actual letter, here it is:

Barack Obama argues that his proposals to raise tax rates and halt international trade agreements would benefit the American economy. They would do nothing of the sort. Economic analysis and historical experience show that they would do the opposite. They would reduce economic growth and decrease the number of jobs in America. Moreover, with the credit crunch, the housing slump, and high energy prices weakening the U.S. economy, his proposals run a high risk of throwing the economy into a deep recession. It was exactly such misguided tax hikes and protectionism, enacted when the U.S. economy was weak in the early 1930s, that greatly increased the severity of the Great Depression.

We are very concerned with Barack Obama's opposition to trade agreements such as the pending one with Colombia, the new one with Central America, or the established one with Canada and Mexico. Exports from the United States to other countries create jobs for Americans. Imports make goods available to Americans at lower prices and are a particular benefit to families and individuals with low incomes. International trade is also a powerful source of strength in a weak economy. In the second quarter of this year, for example, increased international trade did far more to stimulate the U.S. economy than the federal government's "stimulus" package.

Ironically, rather than supporting international trade, Barack Obama is now proposing yet another so-called stimulus package, which would do very little to grow the economy. And his proposal to finance the package with higher taxes on oil would raise oil prices directly and by reducing exploration and production.

We are equally concerned with his proposals to increase tax rates on labor income and investment. His dividend and capital gains tax increases would reduce investment and cut into the savings of millions of Americans. His proposals to increase income and payroll tax rates would discourage the formation and expansion of small businesses and reduce employment and take-home pay, as would his mandates on firms to provide expensive health insurance.

After hearing such economic criticism of his proposals, Barack Obama has apparently suggested to some people that he might postpone his tax increases, perhaps to 2010. But it is a mistake to think that postponing such tax increases would prevent their harmful effect on the economy today. The prospect of such tax rate increases in 2010 is already a drag on the economy. Businesses considering whether to hire workers today and expand their operations have time horizons longer than a year or two, so the prospect of higher taxes starting in 2009 or 2010 reduces hiring and investment in 2008.

In sum, Barack Obama's economic proposals are wrong for the American economy. They defy both economic reason and economic experience.

Robert Barro, Harvard University

Gary Becker, University of Chicago

Sanjai Bhagat, University of Colorado

Michael Block, University of Arizona

Brock Blomberg, Claremont-McKenna University

Michael Bordo, Rutgers University

Michael Boskin, Stanford University

Ike Brannon, McCain-Palin 2008

James Buchanan, George Mason University

Todd Buchholtz, Two Oceans Fund

Charles Calomiris, Columbia University

Jim Carter, Vienna VA

Barry Chiswick, University of Illinois at Chicago

John Cogan, Hoover Institution

Kathleen Cooper, Southern Methodist University

Ted Covey, McLean VA

Dan Crippen, former CBO Director

Mario Crucini, Vanderbilt

Steve Davis, University of Chicago

Christopher DeMuth, American Enterprise Institute

William Dewald, Ohio State University

Frank Diebold, University of Pennsylvania

Isaac Ehrlich, State University of New York at Buffalo

Paul Evans, Ohio State University

Dan Feenberg, NBER

Martin Feldstein, Harvard University

Eric Fisher, California Polytechnic State University

Kristin Forbes, MIT

Timothy Fuerst, Bowling Green State University

Diana Furchtgott-Roth, Hudson Institute

Paul Gregory, University of Houston

Earl Grinols, Baylor University

Rik Hafer, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville

Gary Hansen, UCLA

Eric Hanushek, Hoover Institutions

Kevin Hassett, American Enterprise Institute

Arlene Holen, Technology Policy Institute

Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain-Palin 2008

Glenn Hubbard, Columbia University

Owen Irvine, Michigan State University

Mike Jensen, Harvard University

Steven Kaplan, University of Chicago

Robert King, Boston University

Meir Kohn, Dartmouth

Marvin Kosters, American Enterprise Institute

Anne Krueger, Johns Hopkins University

Phil Levy, American Enterprise Institute

Larry Lindsey, The Lindsey Group

Paul W. MacAvoy. Yale University

John Makin, American Enterprise Institute

Burton Malkiel, Princeton University

Bennett McCallum, Carnegie-Mellon University

Paul McCracken, University of Michigan

Will Melick, Kenyon College

Allan Meltzer, Carnegie-Mellon University

Enrique Mendoza, University of Maryland

Jim Miller, George Mason University

Michael Moore, George Washington University

Robert Mundell, Columbia University

Tim Muris, George Mason University

Kevin Murphy, University of Chicago

Richard Muth, Emory University

Charles Nelson, University of Washington

Bill Niskanen, Cato Institute

June O'Neill, Baruch College, CUNY

Lydia Ortega, San Jose State University

Steve Parente, University of Minnesota

William Poole, University of Delaware

Michael Porter, Harvard University

Barry Poulson, University of Colorado, Boulder

Edward Prescott, Arizona State University

Kenneth Rogoff, Harvard University

Richard Roll, UCLA

Harvey Rosen, Princeton University

Robert Rossana, Wayne State University

Mark Rush, University of Florida

Tom Saving, Texas A&M University

Anna Schwartz, NBER

George Shultz, Stanford University

Chester Spatt, Carnegie-Mellon University

David Spencer, Brigham Young University

Beryl Sprinkle, Former Chair Council of Economic Advisers

Houston Stokes, University of Illinois in Chicago

Robert Tamura, Clemson University

Jack Tatum, Indiana State University

John Taylor, Stanford University

Richard Vedder, Ohio University

William B. Walstad, University of Nebraska

Murray Weidenbaum, Washington University in St. Louis

Arnold Zellner, University of Chicago

-Them some big names (Harvard, U of C, Wash U, Stanford, Rutgers, Columbia, UCLA, Yale, etc.)

See, surveys are great, but anonymous.  This here is people putting their reps on the line...
Justice is tangy....

jeffislouie

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1086 on: October 14, 2008, 01:34:57 PM »
Are you wondering why the market is taking such a huge hit?
Recently, I've seen some interviews with investors who are afraid that Obama might just win and start raping investors with his capital gains tax increase.  Some, sensing the great rape, have gotten out of the market to take advantage of the current tax rates on capital gains, saving (in some cases) millions.
It makes sense - what is the benefit of investing if Obama wins and takes away a larger chunk of your profits?
Justice is tangy....

Elephant Lee

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4786
  • Maybe ju an' me are amigos!
    • View Profile
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1087 on: October 14, 2008, 01:41:36 PM »
Yep, Obama is the cause of the worldwide financial collapse. Credit is frozen and foreign investors are worried about the US capital gains tax rate.
This was my country
This frightful and this angry land

"I guess she was a hooker, that makes sense, those shorts didn't really look all that comfortable." -Dash

jeffislouie

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1088 on: October 14, 2008, 05:03:03 PM »
Yep, Obama is the cause of the worldwide financial collapse. Credit is frozen and foreign investors are worried about the US capital gains tax rate.

Only whiny liberals seek to place blame on one person for everything.  Me personally?  I can't wait until Bush is out of office so I can finally stop hearing effete liberals blame the worlds ills on him.

Obama is PART of the UNITED STATES market collapse.  See, big time investors are smarter than you.  They understand that if the capital gains tax goes up, it digs into their profit on investments.  There are two ways to combat that problem:
1) Work hard to get McCain elected
or
2) get all of your money out of the stock market.

Obama isn't the ONLY person to blame for the worldwide financial crisis, but he is partially to blame.
I guess while you and your soft socialists were meeting to figure out how to squash any and all negative information about the Great One King Obama, you chose to overlook it.
Just like you chose to overlook the bill McCain helped sponsor to provide oversight to Fannie and Freddie was voted down by the democrats.  It's all BUSH'S fault!  It's not like Republicans tried to deal with this problem a few years back while Barney Frank and others said there was nothing to worry about.  It's not like Chris Dodd and Obama were the recipients of the most money from Fannie and Freddie.  It's not like Barney Frank was banging a Fannie exec.  It was Bush, all Bush, and none other than Bush.  Just like you ignore the fact that Obama voted to raise taxes 94 times.  Just like you ignore the fact that Obama asked for close to $1 million a DAY since being in the Senate.  Just like you ignore Wright, Ayers, ACORN, the CAC, and Pfleger.  You keep on ignoring and pretend, like Michelle Obama commands you to, that 'the american people aren't asking these questions.'
Bush evil.  Obama saint.
Saint Obama.
Did they ever dig up his birth certificate?  I'm just wondering, because that's sort of a requirement for the job he's been applying for.....

Like I said before, many investors are pulling OUT of the market (if they haven't already).  One compelling motivating factor is that Obama will increase taxes on capital gains, making it disadvantageous to hold on to investments.

I disagree with McCain on some policy, but Obama has NO record, NO honesty, and NO experience.  He's not a President for our times, that is unless you want our times to be more like the Great Depression (the last time gov. increased taxes in response to market issues).


Justice is tangy....

jeffislouie

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #1089 on: October 14, 2008, 05:06:35 PM »
Just because I know you aren't likely to read the actual letter, here it is:

i'd read it before you'd heard of it.



Then why try to make an argument against it by using an Economist Poll of what anonymous, unnamed economists think?
Because you hadn't read it.

Regardless of the Economist poll, Obama's tax plan is wealth redistribution and a farce.  It takes from those that create jobs to give to those who work jobs.  Economists believe, overwhelmingly, that this will result in FEWER jobs and more of a welfare state than we currently have.

Great plan!

Maybe I should quit my job and find a minimum wage one so I can get me a big fat Obama government check!
Justice is tangy....